Episode 45: Restoring My Identity As An Educator Through Afrofuturism with Sherinda Bryant

Episode with Sherinda Bryant

Sherinda Bryant: [00:00:00] Imagine a bunch of 15 year olds getting off the bus at this campus, Dominique Wright Campus. That is the decision that the leadership students had made. That's their promotion. They could pay two dollars, be a slave for a day, and had a little caricature sitting on an auction block, ma'am, and serves. And others, like the feelings that I felt, but it felt like Twilight Zone.

It felt like totally unwelcoming. So, what do we do? We had a decision to make. We gonna tear up the school or we gonna go and say something to one of our trusted educators.

Dr. Asia Lyons: In a world where the recruitment of Black educators dominates headlines, one question remains. Where are the conversations with folks who are leaving education?

Introducing the Ex Interview. A podcast dedicated to archiving untold stories of Black folks who have departed from traditional education spaces. I'm Dr. Asian [00:01:00] Lyons, and I'm embarking on a mission alongside my esteemed guests. Together we shed light on the challenges, triumphs, and experiences of Black educators aiming to inform and empower communities invested in understanding the crucial issue of retention in education.

Welcome to The Exit Interview, a podcast for Black educators.

Welcome back to another episode of The Exit Interview, a podcast for Black Educators with your host, Dr. Asia. And today we're here with Sharinda Bryant, and she's going to share with us her story. Sharinda came to my attention on LinkedIn. I saw something about Afrofuturism and I'm like, okay, I'm interested.

And so we had a chance to connect. She's here on the show to share her story and we're so excited. So thank you so much for having us. Thank you our show. We appreciate that. Thank you so much for having me. It is a pleasure. Yeah. So just jumping into, you know, our first question, [00:02:00] as always, what made you decide to go into education?

Sherinda Bryant: So my journey to becoming a teacher is in part. In retrospect, and then some things I discovered about myself, but the direct line, I'll start there, where I was coming out of college, coming back home, looking for a job. And a friend of the family was like, why don't you try applying for this instructional associate job at high school?

And I was just like, sure, you know, because at the time, just needed a job. So I apply, I get the job and I am such a person that in any job that I get, I want to do it well. That's what I've been taught. So I endeavor to get involved in different things. And I've always been a person that's going to do more than what's asked of me.

So I'm an instructional associate, but also I want to learn how to do other [00:03:00] things. I want to learn how to run small group sessions and. You know, I want to learn more about this curriculum that the teacher is using and all of that. And so this sparks an interest in me and then talking with students and seeing the things that are happening around the campus, I think connected to something that I didn't know was there at the time, but in retrospect, I've put the two together to realize that.

You know, I've always stood in an education space at some point, whether that's I'm a team lead at a job or when I was 14, I taught Sunday school to the younger kids, you know, and I was putting lessons together then. And what really drove me to get the teaching credential was because an opportunity came in that district to pursue the credential for folks that already had a bachelor's degree.

And who were serving as instructional associates that district would [00:04:00] pay for folks to go and get the teaching credential. It was the only way that I saw I could go back to school to get it. This, by this time it was year seven at the school. And you know what they say about sevens. There's something about a seven that makes people feel like, all right, what else is there?

Yes. I'm

Dr. Asia Lyons: like

Sherinda Bryant: a change. Yeah. So people were asking me those questions. Where do you see yourself and this and that? And then this opportunity came and then I in the email and people were emailing me, Oh, this is for you. This is for you surrender. And I was like, hold on, hold on, hold on. You know, I said, let me think about it.

Cause I'm not sure that I have what it takes. I don't know if I have the temperament. I've already experienced things, student attitudes, and all these different things, and I don't know if I want to deal with it. So I decided to go ahead and get it, because it's free. Why would you not pursue that?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah.

Sherinda Bryant: So I go ahead and I do the program, and it's [00:05:00] inside of the program at Notre Dame in California in the Bay.

where I learned some key things that grounded me as an educator. First of all, in my application to be accepted into the program, I named myself and what I wanted to do. I named the fact that I had been working for the past six years or so as a Black Student Union advisor. And this was important to me to continue to do that work for Black families as a teacher.

And yes, I understood all the things about all students and all of that, but this was my particular interest that I named in that application. So I go into this teaching program with this in my mind and then I'm offered the books and the curriculum that back up the feelings that I was already having, you know, the values that I was building.

So I'm reading Gloria [00:06:00] Ladson Billings and James Bell and these folks that have already, Named how we're supposed to be doing this pedagogy and all of that pedagogy of the oppressed and all these wonderful pieces of literature. And I'm just like, you know, this is it. Yeah. So I felt very empowered. And also on top of that, this is a school where you have nuns, Catholic nuns, who stood on the front lines of movements, the social justice nuns.

And I was like, this is fascinating.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Interesting. Another day. Uh huh. Didn't even realize that there were nuns there, but lest you know how much I know.

Sherinda Bryant: It's a Catholic institution, and so they're, you know, very much part of the fabric of that school is to talk about the work, the social justice work, the community service that the nuns were doing, the priests and the nuns.

[00:07:00] So all of that just empowered me to be the educator. That I wanted to be. And so when I return, I get my credential, I return it to the classroom. Of course, the Malcolm X posters are going up. Yeah. You won't fire now. Right. You know, the Harriet Tubman is on the back wall. Albert Einstein on the wall too. So, and Albert said that education is the training of the mind to think.

That was behind me on my desk. So the critical thinking part, I really enjoy embedding that into the lessons, the social justice pieces. Yeah, I'm going to teach English because that's what they told me to do. But also, we're going to have some other things inside of the curriculum. You know, so my students were used to me embedding historical and social context inside of our literary units.

Yeah, I got to teach the Great [00:08:00] Gatsby. Okay. But we also gonna learn about Harlem Renaissance in the 1920s and all the things and we're gonna find out why, what was going on in the 20s and why the, the character, what was his name? Tom. And the Great Gatsby, while he was reading racist books. So, we explored all of that.

And that's, to me, what made Class Time rich. Listening to students feedback, asking the challenging questions, you know, and pushing them to think beyond just the words in the book.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. While you were teaching, and I love that you talked about the way your classroom looked, because that is just so important.

Thank you. When we walk into a classroom as students to kind of get the vibe right, and I've said this before, I love a good protest poster, and there is a website called Amplify, I think it's Amplify, or Amplifier, and it's all protest posters for free. It's the library. [00:09:00] Printer, which was the major printer in our school, like the massive one was sick of me because I printed and laminated my whole room was so people, and I taught social justice and math, but the folks knew what we were about in there.

And so I love that when you were on this journey, teaching students, asking them to critically think what was happening, like, were other educators in the school and I might be jumping ahead in your story. Where there are other people that you are connecting with that are on that same vibe of teaching in the way that you were teaching.

Or at least considering that in their own teaching, whether it be language, art or English or not.

Sherinda Bryant: Hmm. There was a nice cohort of teachers that I began to talk more with. Later, they go on to form an equity committee. Of course.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Of course, always. Yeah. Look, Have Mercy is always that group that forms an equity committee for free.

Uh huh. That part. Yeah.

Sherinda Bryant: Yeah. We were fitting that [00:10:00] into the schedule, but it was a beautiful cross cultural, across different subjects, group of folks. And I love that. I love just having the conversations, you know, between different subject teachers, but centering on. certain concepts in equity and how we can move the campus forward or shift the campus culture.

You know, it's really hard to do something like that as a small cohort of people because These are also the teachers who the veterans look at as disruptive. The old

Dr. Asia Lyons: guard.

Sherinda Bryant: Yes. Or we've tried that before. And I had to learn how to listen to the veterans because some of them have tried these things before, and some of them have worked really hard to move and shift things on the campus before any of us got there.

And when the new people come on the [00:11:00] scene. There's a weird, like, I don't know how to name it. It's not quite, who do you think you are? But there's a certain maybe lack of acknowledgement that happens. And so I remember one time talking in this equity committee around our concept of honoring elders in African based communities.

We do that. We pay reverence to our elders, to those that came before us, and you know, all of those practices, but we don't really apply that in a work setting. It's not so much of like, Point of reverence as it is, how do we create systems where we're acknowledging the work that others have done before we arrived?

And how do we ask them to still participate in the progress? Because otherwise you get this break between the old and the new. And, you know, I've experienced that too, then later on in my story. Of feeling like, you know, Oh, you [00:12:00] forgot about me, you know? So it's interesting puzzle to figure out, like, how do we bring our elders along?

How do we bring the veteran teachers along in the modern application of progress that makes sense?

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, it does. So as a English teacher in your space, you're cultivating these spaces of joy and genius, and then tell us you're not teaching anymore. So. What was the situation or situations that said, maybe it's time for me to consider doing something else because what it sounded like was that you were set up for success with the education that you received, you had the space and capacity at the school, at least right now at this moment when you're telling the story, to do the things that you needed to do to allow students to critically think, and then what happens or how long were you teaching before you realized that that maybe was not going to always be the case?

Sherinda Bryant: So. My second year of teaching in my own [00:13:00] classroom, well, first of all, I came into the classroom in a space in it because a teacher had left mid year. And like, Oh, we have this opening up. Do you want to take it? And they gave me a disclaimer about the class that, you know, of course, if a teacher had left mid year.

It looks bad. Looks a little scary in there. What's going on? And then what's wrong in there? So the disclaimer matched like a couple of these classes have been you know, yada yada yada and I was Apprehensive, but also, you know, what else can I do? You offered me, you know a position. What can I say? I don't want to You know, so I go into this space and the kids I just remember the particular class in question, they were kind of disgruntled.

And I used to pass by that class and there'd be kids always outside the room and like always somebody in trouble. So I'd go into the space. And I'm like, [00:14:00] so I heard a lot about y'all. Like I just, I had a real conversation with the students. Let me hear y'all say, and boy, did they just unleash all the things.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Can I pause you for a second? Yes. I love that. I love that you said, this is what I've heard. But what have you all, like, what's your side and to have that student voice on day one. I love that. I'm not sure how many folks would have went into that situation and done that versus something we see on like Freedom Riders or Sister Act 2, right?

Where it's just like we're slamming desks and we're, you know, it's like, wait, wait, I got another coat on. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I absolutely love that you said, let me hear what you all have to say. And. The students had, because you were in the space already in the school, trusted you enough to say, okay, you want to hear, we trust that you'll listen, here you go.

So I wanted to pause on that. That was perfect. Continue. Thank you. Yeah. [00:15:00] There's

Sherinda Bryant: nothing in the training handbook that gave me that, you know, to do. It was just that of genuine curiosity. I want to know what's been going on in here. Y'all tell me. And they did. And so it took a while to kind of rebuild the climate and culture in that class.

But from, make this point and move on, but from this contentious place where we started to one day I did a Four Corners activity in the Great Gatsby Unit around money, because, you know, students always talking about money. So I put these things up around the classroom and they were just, Arguing back and forth, going off, and it was loud in there.

I thought it was great. People were like passing by, peeking in my room like, You all right in there? I got it, I got it. So they are doing all that, and then I asked them to write a paragraph, and they all [00:16:00] sat down, and it was complete silence, and they were all writing. I had a co teacher in that class, and he and I looked at each other like, Oh my God.

And so that taught me that the student voice needs to be voiced as it is, you give them that comfort level, and then ask them, you know, to do a thing for you. It'll be all right. So that class, and then in year two, I was recommended to the California Teachers Association as a person of interest. And so they came to my class and interviewed some of my students and myself, and then they awarded me.

One of the innovative teachers of that year, it was 2019. And I was in disbelief at first, me, year two, and something weird happened in there because I felt undeserving, which triggered the imposter [00:17:00] syndrome in me. You know? Sure. How can I do this, as an English teacher, who actually didn't go to college to study English, and now I'm being awarded this award, and people are going to start looking into my history, and they're going to know, you know, all of these things are coming up.

And on top of that, when the article came out and, you know, like the CTA, the California Teachers Association people were calling me and they did an interview online and they were, Oh, so great, blah, blah, blah. And I got to meet the other innovative teachers on a zoom call. I felt affirmed in that space, but I did not feel affirmed in the space where I taught.

Dr. Asia Lyons: It

Sherinda Bryant: was quiet in them streets. And I was like, maybe people don't read the CTA magazine. Did anybody contact my principal? Let them know. Cause she didn't say nothing. [00:18:00] Anybody, you know, it wasn't even that I needed, like I didn't need a parade or anything like that. I just was so puzzled by how quiet it was about this thing that had just happened.

So it made me feel like it wasn't valuable.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, that's interesting.

Sherinda Bryant: So I didn't say anything. I didn't. Hey guys, check me out in the CTA magazine. I didn't do any of that. I just kind of let it be, you know, some other random teacher from a different school in the district, I was at a meeting and he's like, Hey, didn't I see you at the CTA magazine?

I was like, yeah. He was like, that's so cool. Thank you for seeing me. Yeah. I got a round of applause in the English department meeting. That's about it. So it wasn't until recently when I have left the school. And the business, my business coach was like, Sherinda, you need to lead with that. That's such an accomplishment.

Why don't you lead with that? [00:19:00] I think because no one else made a big deal out of it. So why should I, something I had to correct in me, but the imposter syndrome trigger kind of pivots me in a different direction, like it made me second guess myself, then I begin to. Divert that energy to more of, I'm just going to sink into things that I like to do.

And I like to, like I said, bring the historical social context. I like to bring in the music because that's actually what my bachelor's degree is centered in music and business. So I'm gonna bring in, I'm gonna create the environment in my classroom and create this little bubble for myself in the classroom.

And so because of that, oftentimes I'm behind everybody else in my grade departments. You know, have you finished your unit yet? Nope. I'm about a week or two out because I keep bringing in other [00:20:00] things. I keep making these real world connections. Hey kids, did you see what this and the news, doesn't this remind you of this character You know, all the things.

I also love games, especially for my ninth graders. How can I use games more so in the classroom? So we explored that a lot. Now, at the same time, I'm being this teacher, I'm still. The black student union advisor and there's different folks throughout time that have helped me to do that. Being a black student unit advisor is a lot of work if you do it right.

It is way more than opening your classroom at lunchtime for the kids to come in and eat pizza and talk. We're talking in my case fundraising, parent education meetings, Being a counselor, a mentor, being a conflict mediator sometimes, you know, just so many things, being an [00:21:00] event planner. The Black Student Union at that school becomes the main vehicle to deliver Black culture and history to the students, to all the students.

And whether that should be is debatable, but such as it was at that school. And probably, probably one of the worst days I had at school was I was advising with two other Black staff members. I'm kind of retracting in my story. This is when I'm an instructional associate still, but myself, another IA, and a teacher were advising, were sharing the load, Black Student Union.

Because I was a BSU kid, I served as secretary when I was in high school. I know how to do BSU. And so I began to do what I know how to do. People began to question, well, who's in charge here? Is Sherinda the advisor or are you the other [00:22:00] person, the advisor? I don't know why a couple of people were asking that, but what it caused was this kind of like, uh, weird competition thing.

I don't operate like that. I want to get the thing done. But this other teacher was looking for notoriety, for attention, or whatever.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, acknowledgement. So say that,

Sherinda Bryant: yeah, that she was the one. Okay, you know, that's fine. But she and the IA brought me into the classroom. Ironically, the same classroom that I ended up teaching in later on brought me into the classroom and told me that I was a triple rainbow.

I started off as a single rainbow, Now I'm a triple rainbow. In other words, you're doing too much.

Dr. Asia Lyons: I feel like triple

Sherinda Bryant: rainbows are a blessing, but you know, everybody. Pause for a second. Pause for a second.

Dr. Asia Lyons: I

Sherinda Bryant: know.

Dr. Asia Lyons: You got two black folks [00:23:00] telling you as a black person, you're doing too much in a space where I make an assumption that they're the school is not full of black educators, where there's expectation to be solidarity amongst black educators.

We have folks pulling us aside to say we're not getting the light that we deserve, or whatever the situation is, and somehow it's your fault, even though you're doing what you need to do for students, and you're not competing, and now you're a triple rainbow.

Sherinda Bryant: Mm hmm.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Okay.

Sherinda Bryant: You got it. And I was so hurt. Yeah.

Not you all, that we're supposed to be, we're supposed to have a sisterhood. They asked me to step, well the teacher, asked me to step down. But the IA had nothing to say, did not have my back. Just was looking. So I felt like y'all in cahoots. And I cried and cried that afternoon. Because [00:24:00] I was like, ultimately, a lot of us have a need for acceptance.

You know, when we enter this predominantly white space. I want to feel accepted. And so when other Black educators are the source of the non acceptance, it's particularly hurtful. And so not y'all, and also not this thing that I feel so passionate about, like, BSU? You know, like, that's my jam. So not you trying to take it from me.

You know, so it is what it is at the time and I do step down, but, but then that teacher was asked not to return. So guess who's back in action, you know, so, but I had to do conflict mediation with that teacher and boy, was I ready, you know, we, the six page report, you know, I'm Olivia Pope. I'm going to bring all the evidence.

[00:25:00] So. You know, my case is strong, but there's something, there's a silver lining to this story. So one, I want to name that, that situation begins my thought around what I later will call plantation politics.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Folks, I just want to pause right here. It sounds like a podcast title just popped up into our conversation.

But go ahead,

Sherinda Bryant: go ahead. You know, I didn't know how to name what was happening at the time, but as I get older and I start talking with different people in these work settings, then I start seeing patterns in people and the plantation part, the fact that they identify. a Black person to be the spokesperson of Black people.

It's very overseer ish. We're going to go to this person and we're going to ask them the questions. We're going [00:26:00] to take their advice. We're going to protect them. We're going to elevate them. We're going to give them promotions. And if you are counter to what that black person says, then now you're a problem.

A rebel rouser, not a good fit in all these other things that are said. And then the teacher, I would describe as The one that wants the proximity more than they want the purpose. I want to be accepted so bad by the dominant that I'm willing to put you down. You get out of here. I'm willing to comport and contort myself.

To this standard, you know, and almost, I cannot describe a robotic affect, like, you know, exactly what to say, what to do, what tone to use, and all this, you know, all these things. Yes.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. It's like pushing play on a tape. It's like when they say this, push play. You say that. Yeah, [00:27:00] exactly. And

Sherinda Bryant: you don't feel real anymore.

So, these are patterns that I start to kind of plug and keep in my mind. And I retracted in my story, so I forgot where I was before I went there.

Dr. Asia Lyons: So we were talking about, I asked you the question of like, what was helping you decide that it was time to leave because You had the half year and then the full year, and you're getting into, like, this is some of the things that I was experiencing, and it sounds like a buildup to deciding it was time to go.

Sherinda Bryant: Black Student Union, you know, continues. I try my best. I could do a lot more as an IA than I could as a full time teacher, but the stress of trying to maintain the balance, like that which I did before. And trying to continue that as being a full time teacher is a lot. Many long hours, doing extra, it begins to wear on me and I [00:28:00] begin to Feel resentment.

And I, I don't know today if there's a narrative out there around, like, I pushed away these other black people, or I kept people out from helping me. There's like a certain point where I am now in survivor mode. And it's hard to get out of that once you're in it. Like, it's not that I never wanted to do.

Black Student Union by myself, but people walked away. People left me to do it by myself. The IA decides to go do other things and tells me that's what she wants to do. So later on another black teacher comes, she helps, and then she goes on to do other things. You know, I remain for 12 years, the consistent advisor.

Wow. That's a long time. It is. And even that part, it didn't even like dawn on me till recently. Like you have [00:29:00] just given 12 years of your life to this job, you know? And I had to lament that or process that, but that feeling of resentment, you know, it wears on me. Why do I have to do all of this? Why do I have to be responsible?

And so inside of survival mode, I did adopt this attitude, because I asked for help. I asked for resources. If you tell me no twice, now I'm like, I'm not asking you anymore. Sorry, I'm going to just do it. I got my blinders on, you know, barrel through it, and we get the things done. That's to my own detriment that I later realized.

That's not the mode that you are supposed to be in and that's not how you take care of yourself. Because that mode leads to the burnout. That's where all of this is going. Yeah. To where, now I don't want to do it anymore. Black History Month came around in my last year and y'all figure it out, that's what I felt.

[00:30:00] Y'all, I don't have it for you. And people are like, but you do this every year. You always do it. Yes. I'm tired and I don't have it. It took the black counselor to come in my classroom and tell me that we have to do something. This was like two days before Black History Month starts. We have to do something.

We can't let it not happen. Fine. I do what I do. And the first day of Black History Month, there's posters and activities and things. That are going on on the campus, you know, that's the magic that a lot of black educators carry into the community, but it has to be. recognized as such. I don't owe you my magic.

You know, there's nothing about that. I, I give that. I give that freely because I know that it's needed. But when the campus and the community is not appreciative and doesn't acknowledge it, why [00:31:00] should I continue to give it? So, the burnout was real. I remember walking around campus That last year I just like, I was all out of sorts.

Nobody even knew. I had sunglasses on. I was just crying, walking around slow on campus, feeling like I don't belong anymore. I don't belong here. What am I going to do? This was the year before I left. It took a kid to run up. Hey, Miss Bryant. He was graduating that year. And he was thanking me. And, you know, telling me how he's excited about the next steps, you know, like woke me up out of the funk that I was in that day.

Then I knew I'm going to return this last year because I have to, but it's probably going to be it.

Dr. Asia Lyons: I want to say something to you, the word resentment, you talked about like being out of place and this restlessness and crying. And we talk [00:32:00] about this a lot on the podcast about racial battle fatigue. And the racial battle fatigue is our response to a racialized experience.

And some people may be saying like, well, these were black people who did this thing to her. So how can that be racist? But it's a white supremacy system that black folks are working within. We talk about education and resentment and crying is a perfect example of racial battle fatigue. Right? So, so many people have come on a podcast and talked about what you're saying, driving in the car to work and crying.

Just being silent, you know, I'm just going to get my job done. I'm going to go home overworking. So that idea of the six page manifesto of what happened between units, other black teacher, right. That's like hyper vigilance to get things done, to prove oneself. And it's happened so much. And I don't know how many people have language as to what they're experiencing, right?

And specifically Black folks, because I think that we understand [00:33:00] that teaching itself is hard. Running after school programs, running the Black Student Union, all these things, the stuff that we put on the Black History Month is so much. And we just, I think, chalk it up to teaching is just hard. But when we step back and see like, yeah, that is true.

And on top of that, we're experiencing racism. You know, day in and day out. And I think that that's really important that I had to pause and just kind of sit on that for a second, because I think that our audience needs to understand that is what you were experiencing as a response to racism. It is racial battle fatigue.

And I love that you said that. And from that comes the burnout, right? Because you can only try to cope and figure out things for so long before you just hit a wall, essentially. Right. So thank you for sharing that with our audience.

Sherinda Bryant: Absolutely, and I didn't have the language at the time to understand. I didn't have the mentorship.

At the time, I felt very isolated. Yeah. I knew [00:34:00] other black educators in the district, but even all of us, you know, sometimes we'll get together or talk on a zoom. It's just an unleash, you know, we're all trauma dumping. Yes. Yeah. And there's no like real resolutions or what do we do about it? It's just like, let me tell you, you know, so that's not a particularly helpful space.

So, and there's all, there's little things along the way in my story, you know, I particularly was bothered by the low expectations of black students. You know, the whole trauma informed practices thing, ACEs, PDs around it, trauma informed grading and, or equitable grading, all of these things. And also that, you know, we have a lot of students of color on our sports teams.

And oftentimes that becomes. Give them some leeway, give [00:35:00] them, you know, a little extra time here, you know, shift this so they could play and it weighs on my sense of justice. And I don't think that this is right. No, no, no, I don't want people to tell me that this student has wrote this essay and I know they're, you know, how they actually write.

That is. Somebody's parent or other student who has written this essay and y'all want to turn it into me and want me to accept it. This ain't right. So it's in the systems too. The low expectations, the hiding, the unspoken things that go on to pretend like, you know, there's this student focus, student first and the student athlete.

I don't like it, you know. I don't like having to choose. I don't like having this feelings in my stomach where I know this ain't [00:36:00] right, but I'm being kind of pressured to change a grade or pressure to do a thing. Nope. So these are just things that continuously happen that only in retrospect do I name as like, Oh, Yeah, these are major problems.

Student, or other teachers walking by my classroom and peering at me instead of coming in to say hello. You know, I know the difference between the ones who come in to say hello, to talk with me, versus the ones that just are nosy. Or, who are the ones that want to come by and just make it a point to say a thing to me.

Minding my own business in my classroom. But you want to come in my classroom and tell me that so and so black kid from my class. You have helped them with their homework. That's my homework. You know, and I told that teacher. That's great. There's some other ones that you wanna help. Some other ones. And also, I'm here in my classroom till five and six o'clock every day.

Every [00:37:00] day. Send the student to me, I will help them. No, but she's trying to make a point. I helped one of your black kids. See, I don't like that stuff. You know? So. It's just little things like that. Hearing my students get kicked out of class because they got a hat on and their braids ain't done. I mean, the little stories.

It just made me feel like, what is this actually? Because the motto of the school is strength and diversity. And I'm having a hard time finding the strength. And so are the students, because they talk about it all the time. And so I want to know, what is this place actually? That I exist in, you know, I start to question these things.

So all of these things combined in the last, you know, when I had the racial battle fatigue moments, the last year that I was there, it's already in my mind that [00:38:00] I need to shift, I cannot resolve being the square pig in a round hole. I don't feel I fit in. I feel like I will always have to work too hard to do the things that I feel are right, and I cannot sustain that.

I can't sustain that here. So either I was going to go to another school, try being that educator over there, or I'm going to do something completely different. So someone asked me, well what is the thing that you would get up every morning and do for free? And I was like, I think I already do that. I am a black student union advisor, but I named myself more than that.

Actually. I'm a program manager for African American [00:39:00] students. I named myself that, and I put that on a business card too.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Hold on. You jumping ahead of us. Okay. We going to talk all about that. So left made the decision to leave education, to leave teaching in a traditional sense. Thinking back on, it sounds like you had a lot of time to process, a lot of time to think about these situations and have names for them.

Now that you're in this particular position, thinking about what happened in the past, if you do believe this is true, what are some ways that school districts, California or otherwise, what can they do to keep Black educators safe? in the classrooms or in front office or wherever they are. What are some strategies that you think may be helpful or may work?

Sherinda Bryant: I've thought a lot about this when it comes to recruitment and retention of Black educators, which I think are two [00:40:00] different issues. The recruitment part, if I look at how I was recruited, if I look at how other Black educators In that district, we're recruited, or at the school I work for, we're recruited.

You gotta go outside of the box a little bit. There's a black educator that was there for like, over 50 years. You didn't go up the road to find her, you found her in a school in the south. Like, we have to go outside of the box. Because I've had those conversations with a principal at the time. And which I was told, well, they just don't apply.

Like, they can't be the answer. That's your answer to why there's not a lot of Black educators here, is because they don't apply? Later I said, if I had gotten my credential, You know, somewhere else. And I was looking for a place to work and I go on your website. Guess what? I'm looking for certain things [00:41:00] because I have a certain set of values, something that I want to give to that school.

If y'all ain't highlighting the things that align with what I want to do, why would I apply there? You don't even have any black kids photographed on the website. Not to say that all black educators are just mainly focused on what they can do for black students. Nobody likes to hear that. However.

There's a particular soul, you know, something that happens to most of us, not all. Like, if I'm going to exist in a place where I see kids that look like me struggling, I need to do something about it. And it is in that that I feel where the retention lies. I am a willing worker. Many of us do unpaid labor for the school.

You got to protect your unwilling workers, how you protect them. You give them support. You give them time to talk through things. You let them be on a task force. On some sort. You empower them to lead. [00:42:00] For pay. Thank you. Let's make sure we tell people that we pay them for their labor. Correct. Speaking of plantation politics, okay, we should be more involved at this point.

Do not expect the unpaid labor of Black educators. Time is money. And money is money, so either one, offer it, because you value the work that they do. If I was empowered to lead and given those things, doesn't even take that much, because I did it for free, but if you want me to stay and do those same things, empower me to lead, give me time to be creative and to problem solve for y'all.

And give me a little stipend. Yeah. So I feel like that's kind of basic bottom line in the retention.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, I appreciate that.

All right. So my favorite part of the show. [00:43:00] is going to start when we get back from our break. Hey there, beautiful people. It's me, Dr. Aja. Before we dive back into our conversation, Kev and I have something exciting to share with you. Are you a dedicated Black educator or support Black educators? Well, if so, we've got some great news for you.

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How do you become a part of this amazing community? It's easy. Go to [00:44:00] xainterviewpodcast. com or check out the link in this episode show notes. Now let's get back to the conversation. All right. Welcome back. So we're talking to Sharinda Bryant, who was an educator in California, and she started a while back talking about what she's doing now, and I told her to hold that thought because.

We gotta save that for the best part of the show, of course. Before we do that, the question that I love to ask folks, and this question I got from Sharifa El Mekki over at the Center for Black Educated Development, is, is there a Black educator that you would like to shout out?

Sherinda Bryant: Yes, for sure, a few, and thinking about those that have made quite an impact on me, I have to go back to high school, or I have to go back when I existed in a place that was similar to the space that I taught in, and there were black educators there who held us together.

I always tell this story, I'll make it short, where [00:45:00] I was bused to my high school with other black and brown kids. and dispersed amongst the district. One day we get to our high school and the leadership students had this promotion going on where you could pay a person to like carry your books and things and they titled it, Be a Slave for a Day.

Imagine a bunch of 15 year olds getting off the bus at this campus, Dominique Wright Campus. That is the decision that the leadership students had made. That's their promotion. They could pay 2, be a slave for a day, and had a little caricature sitting on an auction block. Ma'am, and sirs, and others. Like the feelings that I felt, but it felt like Twilight Zone.

It felt like totally unwelcoming. So what do we do? We had a decision to make. We're going to tear up the school or we'll go and say something to one of our trusted educators. [00:46:00] That trusted educator was Mr. Howard. And then we knew that we trusted Mr. Howard because he taught us. about the Black Panthers and he came dressed as one full out leather and we were so intrigued and interested.

So yep, we gonna go tell Mr. Howard. Now that was before school. By break, there was Nan Poster on that campus. I don't know what Mr. Howard said, but I know that he took care of us in that moment. And so, I will always remember him for empowering us to be agents of our own self advocacy and to let us know that we could trust someone.

I'm on that campus. I'm going to shout out Joyce Randolph, my English teacher, who had this element of grace to her that I will always remember. In my later years as an educator, she comes to my mind and reminds me that it's okay. To be me in the classroom. She was cool, calm, and [00:47:00] collected. And she used her vocabulary to discipline and to educate us.

So, you know, sometimes we would get rowdy, not me, but other kids, we get rowdy in class. Sure, sure, you know, and they'd be throwing papers and stuff around. And she would just turn around and she would say, students. Please refrain from throwing papyrus orbs in my classroom. And we were like, papyrus orbs?

What is that? Somebody pass the dictionary. What is going on? So, but I remember her always saying that and other things that was just like, I don't know, it's just some interesting mix of intriguing us, you know, with her vocabulary and her presence. And finally, I want to shout out Queen Anne Cannon, who came to the high school to ask if there were any students who would like to learn about film and TV.

production because she had her own show on the community channel in San Jose. [00:48:00] And I was like, yes, I am interested. So I become one of few students who are interested and she takes me under her wing. And sooner or later, I am motivated to start my own show on the same channel, which I hosted and produced.

And did all the things for in my, in my early twenties, like 18 to 21 around that time. But because she invested in me during that time to teach me and to allow me to be by her side while she was doing things. Then I go on to community college and I study film and TV production as my first major. So these three black educators really inform and start to create who I want to be, who I end up being, just a human and, and as an educator.

So I'm going to be cool comic elected, which later someone told me, you, Sharinda, you [00:49:00] just need to like. Yeah, one good time and those students are gonna fall in line and I'm like, oh, really, you know I just need to come outside myself. Just one good time. It does work cuz then they get Like so I'm gonna be cool common collective for the most part I'm gonna have this sense of justice and agency and I'm going to do what I love to do I'm going to embed that into my work Film, TV, music still in me is still part of the things that I love and that I incorporate into being an educator to

Dr. Asia Lyons: this day.

Love that. Mr. Howard, Joyce Randolph, and Queen Anne Cannon, this episode is for you. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So our next question is, you kind of gave us a teaser. What are you doing now? What are you up to? Like I said, when I saw you on LinkedIn, I saw Afrofuturism and I'm like, Hmm, this is going to be really interesting.

So tell us all the things we're really nosy. We want to [00:50:00] know. I appreciate that very

Sherinda Bryant: much. So while I was still in the classroom, this is pandemic distance learning and all the things that were moving at that time for many people. First of all. A lot of teachers were missing being in the front of the classroom.

That is not me.

Dr. Asia Lyons: So, I, I thought you were going to say an idea too. And I was going to be shocked because I have yet to find a Black educator who's been on our show who said they wanted me back in the classroom space, like in the physical building yet during the pandemic. So, but continue to be.

Sherinda Bryant: Because. I think, and we haven't heard from all the kids either.

Yes. Distance learning was hard for a lot of kids, but we didn't know how to do it. Right. We just kind of thrown into it. But once we got into the groove of things, I realized I can sit in the comfort of this [00:51:00] in my house and deliver onto the students. Quality education? Sign me up! So I did struggle with returning to the classroom.

Then that told me I didn't need to be the sage on the stage. I didn't need all the energies and whatever, you know, that other people need. And that's fine that other people need that. But as for me, I actually like virtual teaching. I like design. I like creating my own things. So, also during the pandemic, I went to a virtual conference at this college in Central Florida.

It was Zora Neale Hurston conference. And that is where I was introduced to Afrofuturism as a concept. I feel like I've always been in, you know, I always loved speculative fiction, writing poetry, and using imagination in that way. I love sci fi. I always had a sci [00:52:00] fi unit for its ability to have us explore the what ifs.

Like let's forecast in the future, you know, what would the challenges be? And why does a utopia always have some kind of weird sacrifice happening? Like we would ask these questions. I love that. So I attend the conference, learn about Afrofuturism, very collegiate. And all the things. And I was like, I fell in love.

What is this? So I'm a whole Kermit on the computer trying to find all the information. And I'm just like, nobody told me nothing. Like, you know, I just, I bought all the books, and I want to know all the people who are doing this for this for a whole rabbit. So, that time informs, like, I wanted to use this genre and this platform to create something.

So I start journaling, and sooner or later, I realize [00:53:00] I'm in a discovery mode myself, and this name comes to me, Afrofuturism Discovery Academy. What if, in a journal somewhere, I have it written? What if I could create a virtual or an in person academy that was centered in teaching young people about different speculative fiction, different authors, building their identity?

What if I could do it? So it started for me by writing the question that started with what if, and I began to just to write, plot it out. What kind of classes would you teach? Where would you be located? You know, what are some of the subjects? And Afrofuturism Discovery Academy was born with the first class intro to Afrofuturism.

I didn't see a lot of. People bringing it down into the K 12. And so I started with that class. I was able, I was blessed in building a network is important in this story too, because I can't do any of [00:54:00] this without knowing other people. Right. Yes. So, I can't say that I struck out on my own and I can't do all that.

I can say that I made the decision to leave to do this because I felt that I could. I felt that I had at least enough connections to people who could help me. So, I know, for example, Mark and Mahea Gaskins at the Village Method. They have access to students. Hey, y'all, can I teach Intro to Afrofuturism to your students virtually?

Yes. So I get practice in doing these things. So, one thing leads to another. Popping up here and there, teaching this course. I build another course. I'm now at five, actually. Five courses. I have Intro to Afrofuturism, I have This is Why I'm Fly, which traces the metaphor of flight from Egypt to [00:55:00] hip hop.

It's a fun journey. And I have Wellness and Worldbuilding, where students are creating characters and the characters have to express and explore their own wellness inside of that story. And while they're trying to solve some kind of conflict or social justice issues. Oh, it has been so rewarding to me and I hope to the students to see how they create a world for this character and also embed things that are important to them in there.

So I wellness and world building one and two, and I have the newest one is called the young futurists, solarium, and I chose the word solarium on purpose. Because it is the room in the house in which you go and get charged by the sun. And so I love that in melanin relation to that. [00:56:00] So I want to be an innovator in the space.

I want to bring this genre down into the K 12, as I said. So our young people know more about Afrofuturism than Black Panther movie, you know? And then I discover what really seals the deal for me. is when I discover ethnic and racial identity in the African American psychology book, and the philosophies and the theories that have already been outlined around Black adolescent development, because for a long time, I have felt that there's something missing in our education is yes, core subjects in common core and culturally relevant or responsive curriculum.

You know, all of the things that they say. Something's still missing because we are not seeing the fruits of the labor. And what I feel is missing [00:57:00] is the identity development, the cultural identity development of students. If I look at schools that have the success, where most of the kids go off to college, what are the elements that are present in that school?

Usually really? There's some kind of Afrocentric element that exists there, you know, so this begins to confirm what I was feeling. How can a student access the education if they feel like I don't belong here, the education is not part of my legacy, you know, like you taught civil rights and slavery and the tropes of the books that you read are full of struggle.

So even before I left, I started talking about struggle books. And some of the teachers are like, Oh, man, you know, we just got these books embedded into the, we got them accepted into the curriculum, but now you're calling them struggle books, but they are. So now my current mission, part [00:58:00] of my mission is to help people explore more speculative fiction and characters that are outside of.

inner city kid that plays basketball and gets in trouble and has to overcome over and over and over again. So I was like, yeah, who are these books for? Actually, for the black kids that that's part of their lived experience, they don't need to always read the same thing. So who is it for the other kids?

This is what you want them to learn about black culture. Okay. So we need to expand our selections. And the student access to book and I books and I think that speculative fiction is a great way to do that because now I can be anything I can fly. I can be a wizard. I can be this magical being. I can exist in the world that is void of racism.

I can slay monsters. All of these things, I feel, help students to explore feelings [00:59:00] on a deeper level. So, that's part of the reason why I love Afrofuturism so much, the connection between learning true history. Afrofuturism says, you know, to use Sankofa, Sankofa says, Go back to the past, reclaim that wisdom, and then bring it forward to inform you of what should happen in the future.

So, all of that, to me, is centric to the identity development of young people. True history, learning your true history, and your legacy is not slavery. Go back for that. Reclaim that, and then use that wisdom to really project and to understand that you can do anything that you want to do, given your right mindset, the right supports, and the right plan.

So, that is what the Afrofuturism Discovery Academy endeavors to do. Through the classes, through the questions, the discussions that we have, [01:00:00] I love to ask a what if question and see what students will do with it. You know, it's like one of the rules of the academy is to take those rules and set them aside for a while, and there are no stupid ideas in the academy.

I want students to begin to unleash the things that are on their mind. Let's hear it. I'm gonna go there with you. Cause you know, I am that way too. You have a fantastical idea. I want to hear it.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, I know that we want to put your information in the show notes, in my mind as you're talking, I'm thinking about how many schools and then how many youth serving organizations could really use what you are offering, could really Find value in having your programming in their space.

And so I'm really hoping that the folks that listen to this podcast, share this information, share your information from the show notes with [01:01:00] their executive directors, with their principals, administrators, homeschool groups, whomever, so they can get something like this in their space, because. All of the topics, I just, I love it so much and this wellness and world building, I mean, my mind is just going and going and going fantastic, fantastic, brilliant, brilliant.

I love it. I don't even have any words.

Sherinda Bryant: If I can just give a little bit of a story that a kid wrote, shout out to the student because he wrote this story concept called forgiveness. And it brought me tears. I was like, just so impressed. So I'm probably going to do it again. That's all right. They can't see me.

So that's fine. So the concept of the story, the plot is basically the student. I mean, this young person named Malik, who was abandoned as a child. He carries a [01:02:00] sword. He doesn't know what it's for, but it's just something that was left behind for him. The sword glows and he doesn't know why. So. He goes on this mission to find out what is this thing and what is it all about?

He finds out that his family. As his family are healers, and now he has this mission to use the sword to heal people. So a way that he heals people with the sword, it glows when there's somebody that needs some attention. And he says three words, shine, shine, shine. And the person is elevated into the air and held there.

They levitate and they're held there. While they're up there, they start having flashbacks. And reliving things and seeing the impact of the things that they have done, they come back down to the ground and they have this deep resolve to make it right again. I got to go apologize this now. So that person, you know, goes on to do that thing.

So I push the [01:03:00] student to think, okay, that's great. Like, this is amazing. That part of the story is awesome. But I push the students think about the wellness though. You're making society well, of course, but what about that character's wellness? How does that character resolve his abandonment? So now this student who's writing has to think about, okay, so ultimately this character has to go through a process to heal himself.

And when he does that, he is ever the more empowered. He has more power to heal even the toughest of people. Racist people in the society. And I just thought like, this is a beautiful exploration. The fact that this is even on your mind as a young person, as an eighth grader. To create a story. where a young Black man can be in charge [01:04:00] of healing people in this world, in this society.

I just couldn't take it. And I see the real life implications in what he created. I see bits of himself in that story. And I was just so full. It is probably one of the most rewarding classes and things that I've ever had. Participated in to hear these things, these ideas come together and this story to develop, he has to finish it.

Like, this is your mission to finish this story because we need it out here in this world, like in real life. So yeah, I just wanted to share a little bit from the class.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. And as you were talking, I was visualizing him walking around with this sword. And, you know, the thing that's really interesting is that what I found when I was working in the youth serving organizations, supporting youth serving folks here in the Denver area and beyond, a lot of the organizations had mostly Black girls, [01:05:00] right?

We rarely saw Black boys engaged beyond maybe a quick summer program and to say, and to have him writing. And this is nothing to say against Black boys. This is saying, I think that we are not doing our Black boys a service by not figuring out ways to bring them into our youth serving organization spaces, to bring them into our classrooms, where they need to be brought into our classrooms.

And what a beautiful example of how that can happen, right? Yeah, absolutely. And so that is really beautiful. And I really hope he does finish that story because. The rest of the world needs to hear it and he needs to know that he was able to finish that story. And so I love, love, love that. Thank you so much for sharing.

That's so beautiful. And I guess along those same lines, I'll ask you our last question, which is, what's been bringing you joy these days? Freedom to choose and freedom to create. [01:06:00] So, Stop talking for one second. Yeah, let's snap some fingers. Oh my God. Say that again, please. It's the freedom to choose

Sherinda Bryant: and it's the freedom to create.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yes, continue.

Sherinda Bryant: And I come to that conclusion. Because I was at the nail shop in the middle of the day, thinking about how blessed I am to be at the nail shop at the middle of the day and prioritizing my self care for a minute. I was like, now you shouldn't even be here because you have work to do. You know, I'm doing all of that in my mind too.

And I told myself, hold on, are you not the same person who was at the school 10 hours a day, every day and working on the weekends and doing all the things, all of the extra hours that you put in. To make a thing happen. And you still continue to do that. Why you think you don't deserve [01:07:00] to be at the nail shop at the middle of the day?

And I was like, you're right. So I have a business coach shout out to Charlotte Stevens, who told me that the solutions are in the rest. And that is a struggle. Yes. The rest deck. Yeah,

Dr. Asia Lyons: the rest deck, our Black Educator Wellness Cohort, we just gave this rest deck in our last session. To our members, and one of the cards talked about that, like this idea of resting is when our ideas and our innovations are there and they can come out because we're not sitting at a desk waiting for something to happen or checking email over and over again, and so it is hard, it's so counterintuitive.

To what we've been told to, and I just, I told Sharinda before we got on our session, I'm like, I took a nap. I was laying down on the couch before we started recording and I could have been doing X and I could have been doing Y, but I chose to [01:08:00] just lay on the couch, listen to the rain and just be still.

And she also said she was on the way, taking a break on the weekend and just having that rest. And so I love that and we have to continue talking about to specifically with Black women in education and supporting youth outside of the traditional space, what it means to sit down somewhere.

Sherinda Bryant: Yeah, sit down somewhere.

I heard that said at the Black Teacher Project retreat, that that was an affirmation. And I love that. An affirmation that says sit down somewhere.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Shout out to Misha Mosley. Yes,

Sherinda Bryant: uh, sound somewhere because I cannot do, if I am tired and burnt out, I am at my best self inside of the rest. Like my creativity and my imagination needs it, you know?

And when I rest, when I'm still, I'm not lazy. I'm not doing nothing. I can do that. But usually if I'm [01:09:00] laying and I'm resting, there's a download that's happening. And there's visions that are happening and things that are all coming together in there. So I'm not doing anything. I am world building, you know?

Yeah. I am world building. I am world building. Yeah. I need to put that on a shirt. I'm not sleep. I'm world building.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. Well, folks, this is the end of our episode. We're going to go and world build, we're going to go out and do dope things in our community. We're going to support our Black children proudly, and we're going to have a great rest of our day.

Thank you so much for joining us, Sherinda, and we'll talk to you all later. Peace. Thank you for tuning in to another episode. We hope that you've gained valuable perspectives and a deeper understanding of the conversation surrounding Black educator retention. As we conclude this episode, we [01:10:00] encourage you to join our Patreon.

to support our work. Plus, as a patron, you receive bonus episodes, March giveaways, and much more. Stay engaged with us on our social media, sign up for our newsletter in the show notes, take a look at our YouTube page, and interact with us on our website. Remember, the stories we've shared today are just the beginning, and your p