(Re)defining Me with Langston Jacobs

Episode with Langston Jacob

[00:00:00] I'm an empath. I care about not just the kids, but their parents who work 60 hour construction jobs, or who work multiple jobs and really don't understand why their child is having these behaviors. I care because I'm a working class man myself. And what I would always tell parents is, you know, Hey, we're going to end up shopping at the same King Soopers.

We're going to end up shopping at the same Walmart. We are a community. But what I felt was the role that I was doing was taking me out of that community and making me an enemy of the community. And so I had to retool how I did the role of Dean. In a world where the recruitment of black educators dominates headlines, One question remains, where are the conversations with folks who are leaving education?

Introducing The Exit Interview, a podcast dedicated to archiving the untold stories of Black folks who have departed from traditional education spaces. [00:01:00] I'm Dr. Asia Lyons, on a mission alongside myself. Theme guests. Together we shed light on the challenges, triumphs, and experiences of black educators aiming to inform and empower communities to invest in understanding the crucial issue of retention and education.

Welcome to the Exit Interview a podcast for black educators.

Welcome back to another episode of the Exit Interview, a podcast for black educators with me, your host. Dr. Asia, and we're back with Langston Jacobs. So folks, we have a good story. Langston and I were on a call for maybe a good hour, just sharing this story. And I'm like, wait, wait until we get you recording and sharing your story.

Thank you so much for coming on our podcast. Langston, welcome. Well, thank you. Welcome. I remember a part of that is I, I didn't necessarily think I was a good candidate. And the more, you know, I tapped and [00:02:00] shittered, you're like, you are a good candidate. Yeah, I think that people get into this place of, well, I wasn't a teacher or I didn't teach for a long enough.

And, you know, on the exit interview, we say an educator is someone who supports young people in an education setting. So that's paraprofessionals, family liaisons, admins, all kinds of folks are educators. So I'm glad you did email me and I'm glad we had a chance to chat because you absolutely are the perfect candidate for our show.

So I'm glad you took that risk. Thank you. Well, thank you. And you know, I'm glad that you've taken the risks and fall through with doing this show because it's helping so many people Langston Jacobs included. Yeah, awesome. And I'll say Langston has told me that on his walks in the morning, he listens to the podcast and I told him.

Then it'll be a surreal feeling to see yourself up there as a thumbnail and to hear your own story. If you choose to hear it, listen to your episode, but I guess we'll jump into it. Start us off. What helped you decide [00:03:00] that going into education was for you? Well, I think for me, I think it was something that's always available and I was going to grad school many years ago.

One of the job search engines that would always come up, one of the things that would come up is substitute teacher. And it was kind of like a grad student thing to do. You substitute teach, you bring your books in, and you just do your studying while you're supposed to be substitute teaching. And so that was kind of like, you know, that's what you do.

You get paid for just sitting there and studying, but I didn't do that. I came in and this was in another state. This was in a state of Indiana. And I came in and I just really enjoyed the setting of kids, enjoyed the setting. Uh, although it's a very static environment for me, it was very dynamic, meaning every change because sometimes you come in and you'd be a PE teacher.

Sometimes you come in and you'd be an English teacher. And so it was like exciting to me to see, you know, what I was going to do. And so I started off just being a [00:04:00] substitute teacher where now they would call it guest teacher. Okay. And how long did you do that for? Tell us more about that experience because.

A lot of folks don't necessarily want to sub, right? They're like, Oh no, I don't know if I can deal with all the guesswork of who the kids are and trying to figure out different schools. But for you, it sounds like you loved it. So tell us more about that experience. I think I liked it. Number one, cause it was a job and I needed the job.

Number two, it was somewhere that I felt that I was accepted and needed. And I got some kind of immediate affirmation. I can remember one of my first substitute teaching roles. There was a young African American male. The theme was, you know, kicked out of his class. He was outside with, you know, like a individual table and books and just sitting there and walked up to him.

And I just started talking to him and I started asking him, what is he doing? And later on that afternoon, the primary teacher said, how did you get him to do any work? We never get him to do any work. And in [00:05:00] my mind, you know, I have no formal training thing. And I was like, I talked to him, asked him how he was doing.

Does he need help with everything? And what I found out that is that the work was easy for him. And so my first time, you know, kind of being thrown into the fire, I'm thrown into what is the school to prison pipeline, which is systemic racism, which is a brilliant black young male was separated from. His peers who was outside and who was probably more intelligent than most of his peer group in there and for no reason outside.

But I immediately connected to him and got work done and I was like, how come your primary teachers aren't doing this? How come they're not connecting and doing this? So those were some of my experiences and those were some of the experiences that, you know, kept me going back to substitute teaching Okay, so after You've been subbing for a while and seeing what it looks like to witness the pipeline to prison.

And I'm sure you saw some harm done, not just to our Black kids, but also to probably other educators. You've made the decision that you then wanted to go in to education [00:06:00] more permanently. So tell us about that part of your journey. Uh, once again, I was, you know, in the state of Colorado and I'm going through the process of similar guest teacher in the state of Colorado.

And I, I can remember being in a kind of like a big interview room with a bunch of potential guest teachers and they started weeding out everyone. And the HR lady, she said, Langston, she said, you really shine at this. And in my mind, I'm just doing what I like to do. She said, why have you ever thought of being a permanent, you know, guest teacher?

I'm like, what the heck is that? And she kind of said, well, this is where you'll be on site at some of our higher risk schools, and you'll be there to kind of fill in because sometimes it's hard to get, you know, guests or substitute teachers for some of those. Quote unquote title one or high risk schools.

And I thought about, I said, wait a second, this is a full time position. You know, being in a school, being there full time, not having to go ahead and click what school you're going to. Cause then it was an [00:07:00] online platform picking what days I said, that sounds good to me and it also came with benefits. And so came with health benefits cause it was a full time position.

So I chose to do that and a similar Langston fashion. I think my first. Class was like an ESL class and I'm not prolific in Spanish. And once again, after that class, the assistant principal said, like, said, you really rocked in that class. And I'm like, what did I do? You know, cause I didn't know I was just being myself, but you know, breaking it down, they said, you know, your command, you seem to have a love for the kids.

The kids were listening to you. In my mind, I'm thinking, aren't they supposed to, you know, aren't they supposed to listen to you? Yeah, that part. Yeah. That part. And so I did not know that I had a skill set, but I did know that I had a passion for this community at Denver. When I came back to Denver, this school was in what is known as Park Hill area, you know, just community school.

And I did something really interesting when [00:08:00] I got there. I'm a big soil person. I'm a big earthy person. I felt that soil on that school and I felt like this is where I was supposed to be. And once again, I said, if anybody's driving by and sees this six foot one black man, digging up some earth and running it through his fingers, what is he doing?

But I would walk around the school and I would just, you know, Just either pray or just quite honestly, listen to earth, wind and fire. This was before the Asia lion podcast. So I was listening to earth, wind and fire before that was my, before I listened to the, uh, interview podcast. We all love earth, wind and fire.

That's all right. I support that a hundred percent. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Getting a thumbs up for that. And so I would come in and I would always be gravitated to the student that seemed to be, to have that stamp of rejection on them. And because those were the students that were the most animated, in fact, they were the most funny, their behaviors, which may have seen troublesome, [00:09:00] like blurting out in classroom or hanging out in the hallways.

Those never bothered me. I looked at that as opportunities to connect. I looked at that as opportunities to hear their story. I looked at it as an opportunity. You know, to just share a quick laugh. And so I was never intimidated by those sorts of things. And I think that was the population that I felt like this, that nobody else wanted to deal with, that somehow my life had perfectly suited for that.

And so that's my story. What I was enjoying that role of guest teacher. And the only thing would be in the guest teacher is I didn't have a space. I didn't have an office. I would come in and plot my backpack or, or something like that, maybe in the teacher's lounge. And sometimes the teacher's lounge is kind of territorial, you know, there and there.

You know, studying there and there, you know, eating their vegan burritos and chocolate chip cakes and all that other stuff. And they looking at me like, don't touch [00:10:00] my vegan burrito special or whatever. But anyway, the point is it's kind of territorial and I kind of wanted a place of my own and cause I always felt like, excuse me, can I sit in the staff lounge?

And although that was the right thing to do, I still felt like a guest. And so I started thinking about how nice it would be to have my own classroom, how nice it would be. And there's an opportunity that came up where there was a young man in a middle school who was transitioning out because his mother, poor healthcare on the East coast.

And I had been putting my name out there as far as like, Hey, I want to teach full time. And I got called by the administrator of that school and she said, Hey, there is a spot for a special education. Would you be interested? And I'm like, yeah, and it was started in October, which means the school year has already started.

And so I talked to, you know, the school that I was at being, you know, a guest teacher and they said, you know, sure, you know, try it out. And I went and I [00:11:00] interviewed and they asked during the interview for the SPED special education teacher, they asked me about my day to day work. And I said, you know, I'll come in and talk to students who are non speakers.

They just may, you know, respond verbally or through sign language and I'll take them on breaks and I'll talk to them and I will kind of be a one on one support for them and they just kept on looking at each other every time I answered and I didn't know if they were looking at each other because I was given the wrong answer, but apparently they were looking at each other because I was given the right answer.

And they said, that's kind of like how it is dealing with a special education classroom. The special education sometimes seems like a bad word, but it's just basically the need for an individualized education plan. And so, that's all that means. And it seemed like I had the skills for that. So, I accepted the position of being, you know, taking over a class from, of 6th through 8th graders.[00:12:00]

Whose educational and IQ scores were anywhere from 38 to 68. And so I had a combination of genders, combinations of verbal. I had a down syndrome, you know, blessing up kids and some youth that had all sorts of things. And the classroom was kind of like in a corner and I was just so happy to have a classroom with my name on the top, got the little, you know, Olin Mills picture taken with a chalkboard behind me.

Like, yeah, I'm like, yes, it's my own space. And I was feeling really good about it. And the curriculum was passed down to me from the previous teacher. And not only was the curriculum passed down to me, but kind of like the schedule, kind of like everything. And I was just so excited to have my own class.

But when I went to do some of the assignments with the students and learning stations, the curriculum was very quote unquote vanilla. What I mean by vanilla, I mean, it wasn't very [00:13:00] challenging. There were like note cards and the note cards were actually, where is Billy hiding? I see Billy hiding over there.

Oh, look there. And I would challenge. I said, why are they doing the same thing over and over again? And yeah, I'm trying to cut you off. I just want to say that is this idea of passing down curriculum or doing the same thing year after year. I remember before my first year of teaching, I was sitting in the main library here in Aurora and I had out all my Holden Mifflin Notebook, I'm a first year teacher, I'm holding on to all my texts as hard as I can because I want to make sure I do right by my students and I had everything laid out, I had my planner route, my little blue planner and I remember a woman walking past me and she said, Are you a first year teacher?

And I'm like, Yes. She said, this is what I think you should do. This is what I've done. Write your curriculum one time and do the same thing every year. And I'm like, I said, okay, thank you. And I just [00:14:00] felt so terrible for her students. Because that was her mindset. She was an older woman. I don't know how long she had been teaching because age has nothing to do with how long you were teaching.

But I just thought how terrible that is for their her students and for her own mind, her own critical thinking that she didn't even pause and say, let me mix this up. Let me see what else is out there. Just. This is week one, this is week nine, this is week 14, this, and when we get into that place of we're doing the same thing over and over, it's time for us to leave.

So, I just wanted to interrupt you because I remember that story that someone else had tried to do the same thing to me, but of course, I decided against that, but go ahead, continue. Well, thank you for that. And also, what is the purpose of school? The purpose of school is learning. And so a lot of these students were being celebrated because they were able to repeat Billy is Heidi.

But I challenged that, I said, that's just memory, that's not necessarily learning. I said learning is really being challenged [00:15:00] into a difference of curriculum, something that, you know, meets the child where they're at, something that's culturally relevant. Something that's exciting, that has colors. I mean, these note cards look like they were made in the seventies.

It looked like they were hand drawn, you know, read alongs. And so I started to use the computer. I started to use stories about animals. I started using stories about American history that had videos with them, that had read alongs with them. And I took a risk, but the students liked that a lot more than just the regular thing.

And I remember this book called the chocolate touch. It's kind of like a spin on the Midas touch and it was our group reading. And I just love reading the kids. I do is it's kind of like, it's calming. They get to listen to your voice. And so during a transition, I would always read from them, the book that was passed on, you know, to me, the chocolate touch and.

It was a kid who, you know, really craved [00:16:00] chocolate. And, you know, every time he got the wish, like the Midas to everything he touched turned into chocolate. And it was like, no, I don't want this, but I noticed all the characters in the book were blonde hair. They said, you know, her blonde hair and so forth.

And the chocolate got on her pretty pink dress and all these things. And I can remember right in the middle of that lesson, I closed the book and I apologized to the students. I said, I apologize because this book is not relevant or it doesn't have the same connection to you. And I looked around, I said, how many of us in this room have blue eyes?

Nobody raised their hand. How many of us in here even have blonde hair? Nobody raised their hand. So I apologized. I closed the book. I said, Let's find something that we can read for our community reading that speaks to us. And they said, yes, once again, you know, taking a risk. And a lot of the reason why I was taking those risks is because [00:17:00] my supervisor who was going to be mentoring me went on maternity leave.

And so I did not have a supervisor at that time. Interesting. Yeah, and so my supervisor, who was very pregnant, God bless her, she went on maternity leave a little early and you know, that happens. And so they had a backup person, he was actually the Dean of Instruction, who was going to be my supervisor after she went on maternity leave.

Unfortunately, the backup supervisor got terminated for inappropriate abortion. What do you call it when you take somebody down, say physical management, he got terminated for poor, safe, physical management, breaking up a fight. And so I didn't have a mentor and my backup mentor wasn't there. And so although there were others who, you know, would come by and try and help, I was basically on my own in the corner.

And I realized that they liked me being in the corner because nobody wanted to deal with SPED. Yeah. [00:18:00] This is really interesting that you're talking about supervising or mentorship. And I feel like we've had so many folks come on the show who have been left without any supports, right? Whether they were guest teaching, whether they were long term, whatever the situation, we've had so many folks who said, my principal left mid year and the assistant principal became the principal and they never came into my room.

No one ever checked in with me. They were just happy that I was in the school building and I filled in and didn't give me the support. And so I want the audience to know this is not a one off that if you listen to this show over time, you'll hear more and more people saying, I want to always do best for my students.

And I didn't necessarily, I did what I did and I did a great job of my heart, but I know that there are supposed to be other people supporting me. And that just did not happen either. It didn't happen the whole time they were teaching or just a small part of the time. But I think [00:19:00] that, and we'll get to this in a moment, when I think about what we need for Black educators to stay in education, some of that is probably, and people have talked about this, is mentorship and guidance, right?

Not just someone to come and evaluate with the rubric and the checklist and you meet, but someone to say, let's pause for a minute. I love that you use this book. Have you considered doing this as well? I'd love that you take the kids out after lunch because it gets that energy out. But did you think about X, Y, and Z, and we're just not getting the mentorship we need.

And if we are, it's not for a sustained period of time where maybe it's more than six months or a year. It's a couple years. So I wanted to say that while you were talking about not having that support, you need it not once, but twice. That is not an uncommon occurrence for folks. Well, thank you, and you mentioned, you know, me being in that corner classroom being mentioned, everybody avoiding that area.

There was one time when [00:20:00] the area of my classroom got a lot of attention after lunch, you know, students are usually kind of sleepy. And I was passed along in the curriculum for everyone to watch CNN in 10, which is 10 minutes of CNN of what's going on and so forth. And I just would line everybody up after lunch, press play it.

And half the class was sleep. Through that. And so I was like, why am I doing this? So in typical Langston earth, wind and fire fashion, what did I start doing? The transition kids in from lunch, we did soul train line. So I put on soul train and the kids were coming in. Of course they didn't want to dance.

And I would come in dancing. Like a soul train line and so forth. And then all of a sudden students and people started coming by and teachers started coming back. Like, what is going on in there? I hear music. I hear that. And I was like, Oh, am I in trouble? Yeah, right. Exactly. Yes. Might've struggled for doing this.

And I said, you know, what is going to be my [00:21:00] story for this? My story is going to be, Hey. You know, the kids are bored. It's just 10 minutes of activity, 10 minutes of this and that. But what I found out was, was that they're looking in, was looking at admiration of like, that is a good idea. But once again, you know, first time teacher, no mentor, no backup mentor.

I'm just trying to work things through. And so no affirmation of Langston, that is a good job. Or even no affirmation of. You know, can you choose a different song or whatever, you know, but the kids really liked it pair of professionals in there really liked it. Another loophole would be not having a mentor.

And that is in the program that I was in part of the process of being a first time teacher that doesn't have a license that you have to go through an alternative license and program. Can you talk about that? Yeah. Yeah. Talk about that, please. Yeah, great. And so it's, it's one of the things where you go through in special education specific, you have to show that [00:22:00] you are prolific in math, language, arts, science.

And I can't think of what the other one is, but it's the four major core areas of school. Is it social studies? Social studies. Yes. Thank you. Social studies. And so I'm figuring, you know, I know how to take tests. You know, I've been in grad school, I know what I'm doing. And I took the test because I wanted to hurry up and get it over so I can get my license and so I can be officially this is my classroom.

Not this is my classroom with no mentorship, with no superficient. This is Langston's classroom. And I remember I took it and I failed the math portion horribly. I mean, I was like, how can I feel that my score, the map section was horrible. And my score in, I think the history section was pretty horrible too.

It wasn't as bad, but I knew. And so I was like, wow. And so I remember talking to the school administrators. They said, Langston, you're doing a great job. We love having you here. We're getting good response from the parents. [00:23:00] Teachers, everything, you're doing a great job, but we need you to pass this math practice.

And I was like, wow, so I need to lesson plan. I need to be on time like everybody else. I'm getting paid at a substitute hourly rate because that's how that was. And so when I didn't work, I didn't get paid. And so struggling through lesson plans, struggling through with how to do, you know, IEP, struggling with all these things.

Now I needed to pass this math class. That was very difficult in order for me to be a certified teacher, which means I would have the benefits. I would have a day it's off. I would have all things as a teacher. And I said, okay, I may have just hit a bad day at this. So I took that practice a second time. I think my score actually got worse the second time.

I was like, how do you get worse? And so I'm feeling all this, you know, my dream is coming true. I'm a teacher. I have my own classroom, you know, kids that [00:24:00] students are responding well to this, even though I don't have mentorship, parents are responding to me. I felt really good, but I could not pass that praxis.

The math portion in particular. Yeah, so, and I think again, this is something we've heard before from folks that mention the practice. Many don't, but they talk about the difficulty in passing it, having to take it multiple times. Did you ever end up passing it? If not, what happened? If so, we need to know.

Well, I wish this part were true that I passed it, but I never did pass it. And with that program that I was on, there's like 13 months or something like that you have to pass that. And so, although I was ready to jump back in that second year, I kind of timed out on the time of that program to pass it.

And so I was given the option, although they wanted me to stay in that teaching role. They said, you know, we ethically or according to the rules or whatever, we cannot put you back in as a [00:25:00] teacher in this because you only had so much grace period to pass that. And so they offered me a paraprofessional role and I had gotten used to, not that there's anything wrong with paraprofessional, but I had gotten used to having my own classroom, my own space, my own refrigerator, my own Soul Train line space.

I had gotten used to all these things. And so I continued to job hunt and saw that there were some jobs open for school leadership in the charter schools. And so I applied and accepted a job as a dean of culture in a charter school. And I said, you know, this is pretty cool. I don't have the lesson plan.

I don't have to be mentored. I'm still in educational, but now I'm in, as I pound my chest, I'm in educational leadership. I'm in a leadership role. So I felt like, you know, it was kind of like the things that maybe I can get out of this guilt cycle of not passing the practice. I can get out of this of not thinking, you know, my dream.

It's. You know, a teacher, I said, you know, now I can be [00:26:00] a dean and work side by side and assistant principal, work it in culture. But as we know, those are some of the things on paper, what they want a dean to do, but what I learned a few weeks in is schools, a lot of school cultures, what deans to do, what the role of assistant principal was when I was a child.

And that is to hand out suspensions and tell kids and parents that, you know, you're suspended. They're, the role of not going in a hallway and checking and seeing what, are students okay? But the idea of assigning consequences for kids not being in a classroom, why they're not in the hallway, why are they late?

You know, why did they stand up and square off against all that? And so me being, you know, authentically Langston in that role, I found that me talking to the students and me telling them, Hey, things like that, I started getting challenged for why isn't this child suspended? Well, why is this bad? And. Why are these kids still hanging out in the hallway?

And so I went off script of being [00:27:00] Langston and I'm blessed with a loud voice and so forth. And so I got to this point where I started becoming a different person. I would go out into the hallways, kids were out there and I would just mark, you guys got five seconds to get in class five, four, three, and they would just run to get in the class.

But I noticed. Although that was working, my level of connection with the students when they were sad in the lunchroom, when they were, like, hungry, when they were late and showing up, you know, to school, maybe smelling like marijuana or showing up, you could tell they were hungry. They really didn't want to explore any more of that.

They were more just like, meh, deuces, dude, I'll just go to class, because I don't want to hear you. And so I had to start to, you know, compartmentalize that because I had become good being a tool for kids to go back to class. I had become good at being someone that once my shadow hit that hallways, the kids will run.

I had become good at telling parents, you know, your kids are suspended, but it started to affect my [00:28:00] social emotional health. I started to be stressed out being in that role. And so I tried. Yes. Sorry, I have to pause you here because when we talked about this previously, and I was hoping that you would bring this up and folks, Langston is not a small man here.

Okay. Yes. And I don't know if he'd mentioned this, but. He's a taller, larger black guy, right? And he talked about this checklist of how this is a Dean role. This is what it is. And I want to pause because I love that you said it was changing who you were. And I feel like there's so many black men that I talked in a Dean role who really had a lot of pride in that power dynamic.

of the barking and the yelling and the da da da da and this fear. And I've never heard folks in this way say, and I'm probably sure they've thought about it, just didn't share with me, but say like, I didn't like who I had become. And it wasn't about power. It was about relationships and I wasn't experiencing and providing that [00:29:00] relationship that I typically would have in the beginning.

And I love that you said that because we in education or they in education love a black man and a Dean role as if black men don't have heart or desire belonging or desire care and are just really good at being the disciplinarian. They just need to get, get in the class and yell and. And don't have a beautiful and soft and open spirit.

And I think that's such a disservice to education when we pigeonhole our black men in these types of positions and women, too. But I see a lot more with black men. So I just wanted to pause and say that. Well, thank you for saying that, and that's affirming, that's something that I didn't hear because it's kind of like, a good dean, blank, students, the rates of this, a good dean this and that, but what I was finding out was being a good dean was being an unhealthy Langston.

I found myself, you know, forgetting things that I would normally do. One time I remember I [00:30:00] went to Walmart and you know, Walmart parking is everywhere and my parking beat beat didn't work. And I honestly forgot where I parked. I can remember, you know, my not getting my cup refilled. As I did when I first started education with that back and forth of, Hey, you know, student a B I enjoyed seeing you today with a high five with the love and come and get you.

I wasn't getting filled at all. And it was starting to affect my memory. It was starting to affect my countenance. My shoulders were starting to slob. I was starting to be grumpier than normal at home. And I remember even going to my personal doctor. And say, I'm very concerned because I need to have my head examined, you know, no pun intended.

And so went through tests with memory, went through tests of all things. Thank God, nothing was wrong. And the doctor just said, Langston, you're overwhelmed. That's why you cannot remember. I need you to say that one more time, please. [00:31:00] All the tests that I had, blood tests, test of my brain, memory test. And my one to rule out, cause I thought maybe something medically was wrong with me and the doctor said, all the tests come back, Langston, everything's normal.

Actually, you have a very excellent memory. You were just overwhelmed and the doctor gave me this illustration of a plate is if, if your plate is full, if something's added on it, it's going to either fall off or it's not going to make it on that plate. And she said, right now, like, so this is the illustration.

Your plate is full. And I started thinking about who is this person that's coming home where, you know, I was doing the things I was taking the long drive home. I was counting the 10 before I get in the door. And I noticed my family would kind of look at me and give me that look like, you know, which version of you is going to come through this door.

And it started to become pretty hurtful to me. You know, is this the spouse? Is this the dad that I can come [00:32:00] in and I can joke with, and I can grab your leg and all that stuff? Or is this the one that I need to take a minute and chill and see what temperature you are before you go in there? And that started to affect my heart because I wasn't who I felt I was designed to be.

You mentioned like a lot of the things that, you know, may look on the surface with me being over six feet, over 250 pounds. All those things, but I'm a poet, you know, I'm an empath. I care about not just the kids, but their parents who work 60 hour construction jobs or who work multiple jobs and really don't understand why their child is having these behaviors.

I care because I'm a working class man myself. And what I would always tell parents is, you know, Hey, we're going to end up shopping at the same King Soopers. We're going to end up shopping at the same Walmart. We are a community. But what I felt was the role that I was doing was taking me out of that community and making me an enemy of the community.

And [00:33:00] so I had to retool how I did the role of Dean. So folks, you've said so much Langston in this small amount of time. I want to acknowledge that you have spoken about your family. One thing that I talk about in the work in community around racial battle fatigue, around the impacts of racism in education and the impact of all these things on education.

It's that we're not having enough conversations about the impact of these things on the families of our black educators. That we hire folks, but we don't think, I'm not hiring just that one employee. I'm hiring them, and their grandmother, and their aunt, the two cousins, the roommate, whoever, the children.

And so, when we're talking about hiring strategies, and how many folks of color, and things like that, And so, when we're talking about hiring strategies, and how many folks of color, and things like that, We have to be mindful that we go home to community. And if we're not having the type of experience in schools and [00:34:00] whatever roles these are, that's going to bring us joy.

It impacts family first, right? And so I'm so glad that you acknowledged that and you said that out loud because I really want the audience to hear more people talk about the ways that this, this work, whether you're working for folks of color or not, or white folks or whoever, it's impacting our relationship with our families.

Some of that is not reversible all the time just because we quit the job. So I appreciate that. And I also appreciate that you said, Hey, I'm a working class person too. You're going to see me at the Kingsley Bridge. You're going to see me at the Walmart. You're going to see me back to school shopping with my children.

Because that's important too to see that black educators, educators, period, are having a human experience just like the rest of us, right? And that cannot be overstated. So I really appreciate you saying that. That's so important. Continue, please. And so, how did that look, me redefining [00:35:00] what a dean was? That same desk that I would stand out there and bark at the students, I brought in my own watercolor set, I brought in my own art easel, and so I would be out there while kids are in class, and I would be drawing.

I would be exercising that artistic part. And before, you know, the same students that were coming out of class, they would walk up to me, what are you doing? I'm like, you know, painting. It's like, that's dope. I didn't know you could draw. I didn't know you could do this and that. And there was a connection there.

And, you know, as kids started talking about what do they want to be? What do they want to do? I started telling, I said, you know, I was honest with them. They said, you know, why are you out here drawing? I said, you know what? It calms me down and it's fun. You like what I'm doing? And the first time they would like frown, like what are you doing?

But they would always come by and see what is Langston drawing? What is he painting? What is he working on? And I would do, you know, like poetry. I can't like rap, but rap is poetry. And I love doing poetry. And I love doing all these things and I love going for [00:36:00] walks and going back to, you know, taking kids on groups on walks just to get that temperature change and to get that breath of fresh air.

And so I redefined that, that role for me because it was healthier. It was more of who I am. I love that. And so it started feeling good. There was still that back and forth with a lot of the job duties, but I got a chance to do what I thought was an amazing thing. I got a chance to be the Dean of Students at my own kids school.

And I thought this was the best of every world. I mean, I'm a community person. My kids are there. I can look after my kids. Students can see me in the role as father. Students can see me in the role as, you know, a Dean. My kids get to see me is that I could have my own. I had, so it was basically like all the intersectionality in a good way I thought was really going to exist.

And. It was so fun that first 30 or 60 days [00:37:00] being a Dean of Students in my kid's school, you know, getting a chance to be a part of the leadership, getting a chance to enact, you know, policy. And this was another charter school. And so I was like, get to take my kids to school. Pick them up. And they felt like they were, you know, maybe a little bit better cut than other kids because they could go into the staff lounge and I was there and get leftover doughnuts.

And so all those fun things that they, but there was another part of it that was brewing underneath that. I, it took me about another year to figure out what effect that was having on my own children. And so, you know, as a Dean, of course, you have to suspend students or give consequences. And I noticed that the more I got involved with the Dean role, a lot of students, especially students that were having a lot of difficulty in behavior, they started becoming closer to me because I saw them because they weren't in class.

And I noticed that the other part of that [00:38:00] is my own children started to separate further from me. Instead of saying, you know, you guys meet me here, you know, right after the bell rings this and then it started to become more of a separation where I'll see you 20 minutes after that or, and there started to be more separation of it.

Like, I don't necessarily want to talk about school and we kind of agree. Sure. We're all in the same place. Let's agree on the ride home. We don't talk about school. We talk about something else. It seemed very natural until the last day of school. The last day of school, I can remember going home and, you know, last day of school should be a very joyous celebration.

We're thinking about what we're going to do in the summer. We're thinking about, you know, what pools are going to go to, what summer movies we're going to see. And my oldest son started to cry in the car on the way home. And I'm thinking myself, you are breaking down and crying on the last day of school.

Did you have a rough day? Did you have this? And he said, I, I'm good, dad. I just don't want to talk about it. [00:39:00] My wife ended up talking to him about it. Cause he was actually very uncomfortable talking to me about how he was being bullied as far as residual attack and crossfire for me, applying consequences to his peer group.

And he was very, very scared to tell me because he didn't want to be labeled as a snitch. He didn't want to be labeled that, but it came out, you know, about a month after school let out that he finally felt now that, you know, school wasn't in session in the summary said, you know, I don't necessarily feel safe there because student a student B student that I know that they suspended you.

But when they see me in the restroom. When they see me in the cafeteria, what they're saying to me is things that are things of aggression, things are basically bullying. They're really calling me names and so forth. And I did not want to tell you that because I know you would go and you would hold them accountable for it.

But how is that affecting me as a person? And so once [00:40:00] again, you know, Utopian fit that I thought I had a being in school leadership, but being this and that, and being a dean and being one that looks at things outside the box, the effect that it was having on my own son, and I've talked to other educators and.

Some of them said, sometimes when you hit those roles, it's best not to have your kids in the same school as you. And so I ended up taking my kids out of that school and still working in that school. And I can remember bringing to my leadership team, and this is something that I still wrestle with. I brought up to my leadership team, but Hey, my kids don't necessarily feel safe in this school.

And I think we need to look at some of our systems. And the response that I got, I can still feel it in my gut. Now, the response was twofold. Number one, that's one opinion. And number two, the response was your Dean. Why can't you just fix it? And I was saying, that's not the reason why I was bringing it up.

I wasn't bringing it up to have [00:41:00] my kids to be shade. I was raised up because we're a community school and as a community what we do is we bring up problems and we solve problems and we work together and part of the beauty of this being a part of this school system is that we get to show up as a community, we get to show up as family, you know, I wasn't the only educator who had kids in that school, I said it was amazing, you know, and we kind of developed like a Staff kids culture.

And what I found out is that's kid culture had a lot of them kind of having their own therapy group amongst themselves about how it felt to be, you know, students in that culture. And, but the parents didn't know because we're so busy with deadlines. We're so busy and this and that, but. The kids kind of got figured out.

It's like, you know, this is how it feels to be, you know, Langston's son here. This is how it feels to be, you know, teacher X, Y, and Z. So they felt a certain amount of pressure that was an additional. And what they also shared is that they really didn't necessarily feel comfortable always talking about it and not in those spaces.[00:42:00]

Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that and I'm just thinking about the kids and there are lots of folks who brought their kids to a school that they're working in. And I don't know how many folks have sat down with their kids to say, how's it going for real, right? And the fact that you said that it was supposed to be beautiful, it was supposed to be this place where it must be a good school because her kids are there too.

That's a beacon. And I know a lot of people who say that, like, oh, the principal's son goes there. So I know it's a good school. And not understanding the consequences of those decisions on kids sometimes, right? Maybe it's not always going to be the way your son experienced it, but there's probably more than we imagine that do experience backlash.

I also want to say the fact that you brought this to your administration and they decide to lobby it back to you. Right? In this way of like, this is not our problem or we, whatever way they try to move around or cower to [00:43:00] or bend to that issue, it's not uncommon and you know that, right? I'm sure like you, it's shocking when you said it, my whole chest, like I just sunk, but we also know that's a part of the push out.

That's a part of the way we get rid of folks is we just kind of gaslight them or we say like, Oh, this is not important or you'll be all right. Or you're the Dean, do some magical thing to make this stop happening. As if we're not living a human experience. Like we're not living the day to day with folks in our families who are experiencing these heavy things.

So thank you. I want to ask you were a Dean for how long? And then like, what was the last straw? I guess that helped you decide it was time to leave education. Well, I was a dean for a little about two and a half years, and I think I was looking at my family and the effect that it was having on my family.

And I remember I thought I was at the mountaintop with being a part of the executive leadership team. I thought I was at the mountaintop with having paid summers [00:44:00] off. But after a couple of summers, cause I just thought that if after. These three or two and a half months off. I'm going to come back, refresh.

I'm going to come back strong. It's like, everything's going to be erased. And when I found myself physically ill, I looked back, you know, how those Google photos are, I looked back through the years and I said, wow, I carried a cold, not a COVID cold, but a stress cold for like two and a half months of the school year.

And it was just cause my body was so stressed. Some of it I can own, although they say, you know, have a lunch. I would end up eating my lunch at about 10, 15 every day. Like about 10, 15 in the morning. Cause that would be the only time that I will have before lunch hours would start and where free time would start.

And so I said, if I could eat a good healthy meal around 10, 15 in the morning and stretch through that. So my nutrition was failing. [00:45:00] My health was, I carried a pole and I found myself not coming to work, could not wait for each and every three day holiday, could not wait for all those things. And that was the reason why I was showing up.

And I said, every time the school calendar would come up, there would be more. You know, professional development days. And I'd be like, yes, this is going to be, but it wasn't enough for me to return. Monday, I felt terrible. Every Monday I showed up Friday, I felt terrible. And I started feeling terrible even in the middle of that.

And I had to look at, I had to just kind of count the costs. You know, uh, the person that I'm becoming, uh, how long my immunity didn't seem to be working, you know, how I would be doing the chicken soup things. I'd be doing the vitamin C things and it'd be like, and once again, it's a store. Oh, you're just soft.

You're not a good teacher because good teachers have like the most amazing immune systems in the world. What's wrong with you? And, you know, even the things with the kids, well, it goes back to, well, if you would be a yeller, [00:46:00] if you would do this and that, you wouldn't be having these problems. Um, The problem is, you know, you're too easy on these kids, your suspension legs.

And so it was all these things that I started to have to say, you know, I can't do it anymore. There's no check Mark that is saying this is worth it. It wasn't the pay. It wasn't the summer's off and the coolest thing ever, like fall break. I thought fall break is awesome to have fall break to have spring break, all these things, my bucket never filled back up.

Yeah, that's all I'm going to say. So, seeing that you've had this experience, the next question we always ask is, what do you believe that schools, if you believe that schools, districts, unions can do to keep Black educators in school buildings based on your own experience? Is that something that you believe is possible?

Do you have ideas and tips? What do you think? Well, I think it's always possible if [00:47:00] people need a job, so that's possible, but I think it's that retention and it's that ability to have a second generation of success, you know, here in Colorado, we, and this is not a plug for C university, but we have, you know, Deion Sanders, who is prime time.

That's one generation of football excellence. And he's had a chance to pass that down to his own natural children playing at excellent level at Colorado university. And we don't get that many opportunities as black educators to pass down that black excellence. We don't get that many chances. And so, you know, people can have a job.

McDonald's is going to hire you. Schools are going to hire you because it's a high turnover, but to be able to have that season educational, That's able to help you finesse through, you know, angry parents, that seasoned black educational professional, that's able to help you through the racism that's, that's in school, that seasoned educational [00:48:00] professional, that's in a leadership position, that it's not just a policy of, you know, equity and so forth.

It's really knowing how to navigate that. A seasoned black educational professional who can help Langston pass the praxis. A seasoned black educational professional who can say, Langston, my kids were in school too. This is what we can do about it. We're going to bring everybody, your voices heard. So it's not just about the quantity, but it's something about having a quality.

Season, man or woman or somebody who embraces teaching, who loves it, and who has some authority in the school system and is able to not just hear, but take those messages of all the hurt and really turn it into policy that's advantageous for the black educator. And when you do that, you have a stage that's advantageous for all kids.

For all kids, what mayor, what president, what politician, [00:49:00] who does not want a thriving school system? Who does not want a thriving school system where not only are students excelling and getting state championships, but they're also, you know, getting high college admission rates, they're happy, they're doing community projects, they're able to show up with pride on that first day of school and school teachers be like, dang, another school year.

You know, who doesn't want that? Everybody wins. Yeah, I love this. The idea of the legacy. Yes. Yeah, the legacy is so important. You're exactly right. All right, folks, we're going to go on a break. When we get back, we'll continue our interview. Hey there, beautiful people. It's me, Dr. Asia. Before we dive back into our conversation, I have something exciting to share with you.

Are you a dedicated Black educator or support Black educators? Well, if so, we've got some great news for you. We're thrilled to introduce the latest addition to our podcast community, the Black Educator Be Well Newsletter. It's a space dedicated to all things [00:50:00] Black educator healing, wellness, and more. We believe that taking care of our Black educators is crucial, and this newsletter is designed to do just that.

Picture this, exclusive insights into self care practices tailored for Black educators, inspiring stories from fellow teachers who've overcome challenges, and tips for creating a positive and supportive environment at work and at home. Subscribers will get early access to our upcoming podcast episodes, special interviews with guests, and even some surprise giveaways.

How do you become a part of this amazing community? It's easy. Go to Xanadu podcast. com or check out the link in this episode show notes. Now let's get back to the conversation. All right. Welcome back folks for my favorite part of the show. So starting off first things first, Langston, is there a black educator or multiple that you would like to shout out on our show?

Well, I'm looking at you right now, Dr. And I got to shout you out because if your podcast. It is [00:51:00] increased my mental health. I actually listened to your podcast as I'm doing my self care walking in the morning. So I'm going to start off with you and everyone who's been on the show, I found a little piece of me and every single story, but I have a brother in law who's in Minneapolis schools, public schools does the same thing.

His name is. Alex Leonard and, you know, Minneapolis schools have been through quite a bit with social justice and so forth. And he was my person that I would phone a friend when I was ever having a difficult time as a Dean and so forth and checking the pulse of how they're dealing with the community, because they have real stuff that they're dealing with there too.

And, you know, a fellow Dean of mine, Webster Johnson, the second, he's done some Dean work in the schools and. He's been kind of like a phone, a friend as well. And the third person I want to shout out, if I can, well, the fourth would be, there was a assistant principal when I was in seventh grade. I cannot remember his name, but he was a Reverend.

And I remember we were out in the field fighting or brawling, whatever. [00:52:00] And each and every person, he would give them their suspension, send them off, give them their suspension, send them off. And last of all, it was Langston in the office. And he had on his, you know, preaching suit and he just said, Langston, he said, you're different.

He said, you have no business being out there fighting. I said, but he said, I don't want to hear that. He said, I let you in here last on purpose because I want to tell you, my story to you is different than them. That is not you. The fighting out in the field, the foul language, that's not you. And he saw that in me.

And I tried to be that to every single youth that I come across. I try and say, Hey, what you done or been a part of, or what you done, that's not you. And so those are my shout outs, Dr. A. Yeah, I love that. Well, your story about your seventh grade assistant principal reminds me of my principal at Clark elementary in Detroit.

Great. I've never been in the principal's office. I am a nerd, you know, here I will write a strongly worded email [00:53:00] before I get into, uh, any kind of altercation with people and folks know that about me. I just remember so many black male principals I've had over the years. I mean, get into that a little bit, some other time, but yeah, I appreciate you sharing that story.

So then the next question is now that you're no longer in a traditional education space, what are you doing now? Right now, I'm co founder and director of men and youth programs for me and my wife's organization, Adults Purpose. It's a organization that was birthed out of our own pain and our lived experience that offers hope and healing for those of us in the African American community who have experienced loss.

And that comes with individual therapies for Black moms and black moms of color group therapy. And we're introducing this fall circle healing groups. So I'm very excited about that. That's something that is not often talked about enough in the African American [00:54:00] community, and quite often we need to be comfortable enough to be able to grieve in safe places.

Dr. Asia, I've heard you talk a lot about, you know, black grief and how that shows up in the education space. And, you know, honestly, how that does get intertwined in our own grief. When we get to those certain ages, you know, like I am, when we start to lose our parents, when we get to those certain ages, when we start getting in pre grief where our parents are getting older and we have to, you know, take care of them.

And also to be able to deal with the grief that we have, how it affects our families. How it affects, you know, our health, our mental health, how it affects our diet. And so really looking to offer some services. We do social outings, horse therapy, art therapy. We've done the pain sip. Some of us paint some of the sip, but it's all good.

You know, some of us do a little bit of both, but it's a way of normalizing grief. And that's one of the things that really drew me into your podcast. You talk about black grief and black grief is [00:55:00] different because it's systemic. It is things that we deal with every day, but when we come not only with that black grief that comes with systemic racism, but when we lose those who are our loved ones, when the loss of a child, which me and my wife, Experience, which I don't put that on anyone.

You know, when we see in this community, those who were teenagers, schools are grieving, you know, you can walk into certain schools and you can feel that like, what is going on with this school? And, you know, I've come to, I could probably do the research. That whole community is grieving the staff members, the family members.

They're grieving. Maybe it's a loss. You know, we're in the community of Elijah McClain, rest in peace. You know, we're in the community where there's been a lot of untimely death and some things hit the news. Some things don't, but to talk about it, a safe place to process that grief, a safe place to go through the stages of grief, a safe place.

For us, that's culturally relevant, connecting to therapists of color, [00:56:00] connecting to peer advocates of color. And so that's what I'm doing these days. Dr. A, I love that Adam's purpose. And just tell us the website and email so we can have people reach out if they'd love more information, please. Right. It's www.

adamspurpose. org. And we have website. We're on Instagram. We're on Facebook. We're on LinkedIn. And. And you can see, you know, pictures on it. You can sign up for community events. You can sign up for more information. There's a lot of personal stories on there that you may find yourself in, of those who have, you know, impacted grief and loss, but basically there's a term that I've been rolling with is called Ujima and is one of the concepts of Kwanzaa.

And I've been rolling in that for a couple of years now. And that means a community that heals together. And so I want to be a part of that. I'm an introvert by nature. And so I can connect with the introvert. I'm also a class clown by nature. How does that happen? And so I can [00:57:00] connect with you on that aspect.

And so, whichever it is, you know, we want to meet anybody where they're at. And we're a safe place. People that look like us, people that grieve differently, people who, after their two weeks of bereavement. Off, you know, they have to go back to work. And if it's a different relationship, maybe you just have one day of bereavement and you better show that obituary to your boss.

And so we want to normalize that in a healthy way and say, it's okay to grieve. It's actually healthy to grieve. Absolutely love that. And thank you for that work. Beautiful. Last question. What's been bringing you joy these days? As I smile, I enjoy spending time with my family. Wonderful wife, Shanika. I am my boys, Elijah, Josiah, and Seth.

I love to get outside and I love to walk. I enjoy sunshine. One of the things that I've started to enjoy that's on TV is just a safari channel. And the safari channel is basically like the waterhole live at an African [00:58:00] safari where you just watch and you just hear the sounds of the birds and whatever animals come by, they just, Gradually get a drink of water.

They just, you know, stretch out and lay in. So that connection to nature, that walking, that sunshine. And of course, listening to the exit inner podcast gives a breath of joy. I love that. Well, folks, this is it. Our time is up. We've had a great conversation. If you feel like Adam's purpose is something that you need to be a part of.

Don't hesitate. Thank you all so much for being in the show. If you know someone who should be archiving their story on The Exit Interview, make sure that you send them this episode and I'll talk to you later. Peace. If you've enjoyed this episode of The Exit Interview, a podcast for Black educators, I'm sure you'll love similar content in the Alive Podcast Network app.

That's right. We've joined a podcast network. Plus you can support this podcast and enjoy every listening to nearly a hundred [00:59:00] other black hosted podcasts. Head on over to the live podcast networ