You Can Stand on My Shoulders with Dr. Darlene Sampson

00:00:00] What's good Y'all welcome back episode six of the exit interview. So excited. Kevin, how you feeling? I'm feeling good. Feeling great. Excited for this interview tonight, but overall excited 'cause we're getting. Closer to the end of the school year. Yeah, who's counting? Oh, I am. So we have Dr.
Darlene Sampson on tonight. So excited to hear her story and just figure out like how her story can help administrators, teachers, all of our folks listening support them in understanding the lived experiences of black educators. But before we get started, our intro as always, don't forget. To follow us on at [00:01:00] two Dope Teachers on Instagram and Twitter.
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So again, thank you so much, Dr. Samson for joining us. Absolutely. Yeah, and we just like, as always, feel free. This is conversation start. First question we always start off with is what's your story? How'd you get into education? And then really what led up to you leaving the K 12 space? And feel free to tell us your story.
Hello everyone. Get your phone, get your pencil and paper. We about to have a clinic. Okay. Let's go. Okay. I'm Dr. Darlene Sampson. And let me tell you about my story from the beginning because I didn't choose education and social work. It chose me. And I was one of those people that I grew up with pastors.
My mother was a missionary. My father was a pastor, those Kojic folks. Hallelujah. Yes. [00:03:00] And I was raised in the church and I was one of those individuals who my parents were very clear. Service is what you do, girl. That's what you do. That's what's expected of you to stand on those shoulders to make our family proud to represent black folks.
So very early on growing up in the church, speaking in the church, talking in the church. You had to get up there and they used to call that little piece that you had to say on Easter and Christmas. Yes. So I learned how to talk. I was a public relations master when I was just 10 practically because I learned how to speak to people and connect with people and to see what they needed.
And so early on education. And social work were my pieces because my mother also took in individuals who were struggling with mental illnesses and she supported people with mental illnesses. And so at that time, way back when I was born, there was not a lot of support and particularly for [00:04:00] black folks.
And so the spirituality and the caring were all wrapped together. It wrapped around me and it became ingrained in me. So that's how I chose education and social work. I am a licensed clinical social worker by trade, but I also have a PhD in cultural responsive pedagogy, teaching educators how to connect instructionally.
Socially, emotionally with diverse children, groups, kids who have special needs or differentiated learning needs. So that's what I've done and my work has Really just mix both fields. I haven't divorced the two, social work and education. I keep them together. One helps me understand human behavior, and the other helps me move change.
And look at the system of education. And so that's how I got to both of those areas. Okay. I love that idea of I can relate to it because I was thinking about my [00:05:00] own family. Cause we have a lot of teachers in my family and I'm like what is that? But I think the commonality is we come from a family that was raised in the church and this idea of service and that you give back.
And so I start to think about us, my generation of the family, all of my cousins who went into education and that just really hits with me, that idea of you learn it from a young age, that it's important what you do, because it impacts the others who are going to come after you.
Yeah, black people, we teach all the time in order for us to stay safe in order for people to understand us culturally in order for us to see the world in multiple ways in order to be validated. We're always teaching. So we are groomed to teach. And that's why we're so resilient because we've learned how to teach in ways that engage others.
That's just who we are. We are teachers, we're educators, we're social workers. [00:06:00] We are spiritual folks, so it comes natural to us. It's ingrained in us. Yeah, I love that we are groomed to teach. I love that. I love that. I love that. And when you say that I think about all the lessons I learned with my mom, my grandma, my dad, my grandpa, always those lessons that were always coming through about everything, in the world.
And I just think about that powerful education that I've gotten, and it makes me think about this idea, I think what our podcast is about is why are black, why do black educators leave? Because a lot of us, and I've felt this way like we, we teach for a different reason.
There's a different reason why we go into it. It's not just to get a paycheck. It's not because summers we have summers off, although all of those things are nice. We come into it. Most black educators that I meet say, I wanted to impact kids who were like, yes, And help my people for sure.
[00:07:00] Absolutely. And Dr. Simpson where is it that you grew up? Where'd you grow up? Okay. That's a long story. Okay. I grew up in Pueblo, Colorado. There's not many of us there. That's a whole podcast. Okay. That's another podcast because but I had this large, not large, but a kind of a medium church family.
So the people around me look like me and they care for me and watched over me. But in a town of 100, 000, there might be 2000 black folks in Pueblo, Colorado, but that's where I grew up. Wow. Wow. Even still now, you think? And most of them have left. Actually, it's diminished. It's lower.
Even the numbers are lower from the 100, 000. A lot of people had to move out or find other jobs. The steel mill closed. That's where a lot of the black folks worked when I grew up. My parents weren't, my mother was in health. And my father was in the automotive business, but they were [00:08:00] both they had the church as well and we had this choir that sang all over and come to Denver.
And so I was exposed really early to, just going places and doing different things. But we stayed in our close knit area and across the street with someone black for me around the corner, someone's black for me. We stayed in a specific area in Pueblo and everybody knew everybody and everybody knew everybody's business.
Yep. Yep. Yep. So did you, I had about five mamas who watched over me Uhhuh and told on me all the time. All the time. I believe that. So did you start your teaching career or your you said social teaching? Social work. Social work. Thank you. Thank you. Did you start your social work career in Pueblo or were you moved to Denver or somewhere else?
I watch social work and watching my mother. As a health provider and also caring for individuals with mental illnesses. But I didn't, when I first went to college, I left Pueblo and went to Greeley, Colorado. And that's where I received my first [00:09:00] degree. I had a double major in rehabilitation and psychology.
And from there, I came back and started working in child welfare. And I worked in child protection probably 10 years, a long time and went from child protective worker all the way up to a supervisor in Adams County. So I worked there for a long time in social work and probably after working many years, I got my master's maybe five years after that, I got my master's degree in social work and I was teaching.
Social work students. So I was doing education at higher ed level, not K through 12. So I was teaching for those who were seeking their masters in social work. And, but they also were working with lots of diverse populations. And we know who disproportionately comes into these agencies and needs support and counseling.
And so I had to do a lot of work. So it was a teaching and social work together. And some probably within [00:10:00] 25 years of having my master's in social work, I said, you know what I'm in schools as a social worker. I want to have a greater more information, more understanding of teaching. So I then went and moved to pursue a doctoral degree.
So it was a big leap from social work. And and being in schools. to being a doctoral student at the University of Colorado. So that's what how I got into education. And so all the instructional pieces that teachers get, they collapse it. into a doctoral program in the first couple of years is instruction and pedagogy and writing plans.
And what do you do and how do you understand the field? What's the pacing of teaching? And how do you look at formative assessments? And all of those things are collapsed really quickly into a doctoral program. And then you start to write your data. But I knew that I wanted to impact. Black students that I had been teaching and supporting, I centered black students in my doctoral [00:11:00] work and it was focusing on the culturally responsive lessons that black children prefer that make them want to connect with school and their teacher.
And you can look it up. It's called cultural vibrancy. It's published. And it's about the kinds of things that students of black students preferred. What ended up happening is All students wanted it. All students preferred the kinds of lessons that I came to teach them about. All students wanted to hear about themselves.
All students wanted to talk from a social emotional level and to connect the old history with the new history. They wanted to get out of the school. They wanted to see people who look like them. These things aren't new. The kid's been telling you this. We know they want to have validation on their history and they want to be honored.
They want to be cared for. They want to be loved in school. Nobody said they want to be loved like you love your child. And so all of this came out in my [00:12:00] doctoral work and I published it way back in 2011. Cultural vibrancy, the types of lessons that black children want in schools. And it ended up with all of the children in the classroom wanting those lessons.
That's that's always, it doesn't surprise me, because we've talked about before, that all kids learn better when they have black educators, all kids learn better when we use these culturally responsive methods, and I've always, I teach middle school and I've always been convinced that kids like to learn about themselves, especially middle school students.
They want to know. Who they are, where they came from, why are they treated the way they are, because they're starting to grow to an age where they start to really, notice their, how their identity impacts their lives. And so it just, it really is, it's so obvious when you start to get into it, what are these kids?
They always want to know what will engage the kids. [00:13:00] I'm like, ask them, they'll tell you. Yeah. Sure. It's not obvious to some people though, yeah, people are challenged because you got to look at yourself. You've got to know your kids. If you don't already know the metastasized cancer of inequities in our society is everywhere up through curriculum discipline every single area there is cancer of inequities.
In the school system, if you're not ready to talk about that, you really are not ready to do culturally responsive teaching. Yeah, that's so true. It's that history, the healing, all that is so important. Yes. Understanding all the systems and how they're intertwined. You're absolutely right. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome.
We appreciate that. So when you finished your doctoral program, were you working at the time? I worked up until I... I worked all the way through, but I moved to part [00:14:00] time as I wrote my dissertation, and I continue to work in the school. Shout out, whoo hoo, Montbello High School is where I worked, and it is coming back, and those are my kids.
And this is my community. That is my hood. That's where I hang. That's where I continue to be. And I wrote for almost three years to finish my doctorate work while working at Montbello High School working as a social worker. Support. I did just about everything for the students. You can't just sit there and go I'm only going to teach this.
I'm only going to look at them this way. I took them on trips. I made sure they got scholarships. I was the mama, the social worker, the mediator. All of the things that our kids need, which is called warm demander pedagogy. We, I did those things. I had high warmth for them, but I wasn't taking no stuff because I know they were great.
And so those are the things that I did during [00:15:00] that time while I was preparing my doctoral work and doing my study. Okay. Awesome. Awesome. So we obviously based on like this, the topic of the podcast, know that you're no longer at that school and you're no longer necessarily doing. K 12 work directly for direct as an employee of school districts.
So can you tell us the, some of the situation that led to you going from being a mama, doing the scholarship work and field trips to where it was like, I think it's time to consider leaving education and in the capacity that you were in. Yes. Okay. We'll have to go backwards though. Because after I got my doctoral degree, I then the district decided that I was working in decided that they were going to have a coach responsive director for the entire district.
Yes, they had not had that they had not been exposed to that. There was lots of [00:16:00] inequities and challenges going on, particularly around disproportionality and discipline. Yes. And instruction. And I had just earned my doctoral degree. I applied for the position as director of culturally responsive instruction and got the position.
So way back in 2006, I became the director of culturally responsive teaching and I stayed there about five years. And it was a battle ground for the work, battle ground for our students, a battle ground for my emotional health. So many things occurred during that time. People simply weren't ready for my greatness.
And that is not to be arrogant. That is just to say that they were not ready for the work. Diversity, equity, inclusion work simply couldn't even look at me and see me as a Black woman. I was invisible. Building an infrastructure for the work at Denver Public [00:17:00] Schools was very hard. Very traumatic.
To the point that I left. I can't even call it racial battle fatigue. I don't know what's worse than fatigue. So it was greater than racial battle fatigue because while on the plantation, I'll use that term. Yes. Because we had individuals who. struggle with who they were as black folks, too. And to this day, I don't fault them because I see we were, they were all fighting for the same things.
And some of the same black folks who fought against the work, the training, the instruction, looking at data dissecting some of the challenges have also left at the time though. They were scrounging and scratching to stay alive in a space in which you will drown if people are not ready to do the work.
So I, I don't even begrudge people to this day. I say, I totally know what happened. It was like a domestic [00:18:00] violence relationship. We'll do better. We'll do better. We'll change. We see these things and then knock you upside the head the next day. So that was the challenge of being their director. There were a lot of people like, embrace it.
We want you to come. We want you to train the teachers. We're going on board teachers. Let's look at data. Oh, somebody just made fun of this student or kids with special needs. I wrote protocols. I did statements of faith. I did mission statements. I work collectively with all kinds of different challenges.
And my role was to be in all places, communications and data instruction in schools. Every single space was a battleground. So the racial fatigue was very hard. It was racial, but it also was gendered. So it was intersectional. There were so [00:19:00] many things. I'm a dark brown skin woman. So colorism came up.
Substantial size, gender came up. The fact that I'm unapologetically black and speak to who I am. That was a challenge. She's talking too loud. Somebody said in a training one time. Dr. Simpson moves her head too much when she talks. Oh wow. This is the kind of behavior that I endured. I can't hear what she said because she has dreadlocks.
So when you start back in 2006, now everybody's woke. Yes. Yes. They love red locks. They love brown skin. They want to hear about the instruction, even if they're not going to do it. They want to be engaged. But in 2006, it like, no, wait a minute. She gone too far talking about our kids are brilliant and bright, resilient, and they have a right to be an IB and gifted and have access to classes.
She had nerve enough to tell me I needed to teach all kids that I [00:20:00] have to have the capacity to do that. So while I push and push. When I look this many years later the emotional toll was very great, but I then created what was called the Tots, the trainer of trainers, and these trainers helped me train and support teachers all over the district.
I had 17 of them. I was given a budget by my director who was strong for my work and covered me many times, and that was the only way I survived with the Tots. Who, I could go in a room and say, can you believe what you just heard? Can you believe what you just saw? So the racial battle fatigue, I would say got better the more we pushed in to different spaces.
Yes. And I think that's so important. That idea of that team that you can talk about it. And, I know in my building, I have my, our producer for this podcast, [00:21:00] Rardo is like my go to guy, where you can talk and you have those, I can't believe so and so said this. What are we going to do?
How can we push back against this? How can we organize to better meet the needs of kids? It's. And what you're talking about is the work that that we always talk about, that you're always fighting a fight. It's every day, it's going to be a fight no matter what, like you you can't even decide what we're going to eat for lunch.
You can't put your word in for lunch without them fighting and arguing about it. And you feel and again, to go back to what we talked about this calling to serve. And when it's that important you can't let yourself be quiet. You can't sit and watch the injustices happen.
You can't not do all that you can for the kids every day. Yes. Yes. And I centered their voices. I wanted people to hear what our kids said about their experiences. I did videos with them. They were published [00:22:00] online. I sent them around to schools. Let me tell you what the students said about you never speaking to them or correctly saying their name.
Let me talk to you about the young lady who receives a message from you that she's not going anywhere in life. Or let me tell you about the young lady who you told you're going to be pregnant. You're not going on to college or you don't have the aspirations. And so not only did I push systems and the structures and that metastasize inequity I also.
centered the voices of all Children, but particularly those Children that were showing up in data disparities, black and brown, Native American Children. It was atrocious. Their care, the lack of curriculum, the tension, the invisibility. So it wasn't just for black Children. All that. That was my subject matter and what I was unapologetically afraid to talk about.
But they had risen high in the data. In terms of students who were [00:23:00] feeling very disconnected and I feel like teachers never want to, they never want to experience the cognitive dissonance. They don't want to hear what they, if you let the kids tell you what they think, open it up, because they're going to be honest with you about how it feels, how they, feel about the school.
They say it all the time. This place is a prison. Yeah. Are they saying that it's how we're treating them? It's how we're interacting with them. You remind me Kevin of some of a so parents would call me Dr. Samson. Let me tell you what's happening. Can you help me? My son's getting pushed out of school.
Dr. Samson, they took his paper and tore it up and threw in the trash. Dr. Sam, it would every week, I can remember going to school where. Our kids were walking like they were walking the line in prison, and the principal said, I have to do that for these children. So get out of control their cultural flavor, who they wore they were young and already been adultified [00:24:00] and over sexualized.
So I had to talk about that. And many people were put in control of our kids who didn't really love them, who didn't care about them or didn't understand their authentic lives. And my role wasn't just this instructional, social worker, educational. I had to fight for the lives of our kids, the right to be who they are and the right to be validated in school.
So that was. To me, that was almost a greater task while I'm teaching you about what instruction looks like and what behavior looks like. So just thinking about what you're saying, it sounded like you ever played the game Whack A Mole? Yeah. Oh my God. It feels like it was, there were systems that you were putting in place and you have your tots and there were things that you were doing and at the same time, this Whack A Mole of trying to.
Train over here and have a parent meeting over here. And so when you talk about that exhaustion and how hard that was. Yes. [00:25:00] Yeah. Many days I went home and cried many days. I was sad. It was always the kids and those educators were like, I'm going to get this. I'm going to understand this. I'm going to do this.
That really shored me up. And wrapped around the work that I was trying to do is all worth it. All of the beatdowns all of the challenges all the calling me out in meetings, all of it was worth it. Or, I would write something someone else would take responsibility for. The kind of stuff that happens a lot in school, classes, in higher ed, everywhere.
Microaggressions all the time. I think one of the sadder things for me, though, is that people learn to keep it in and be more quiet about it, but the behavior was still the same. But there were great people who, through the evaluations and documentations and the work we did with them, made a lot of changes in who they were.
And systems then called on me.[00:26:00] The teacher observation system and the data system and the family engagement system to work with them closely. So there, it wasn't all bad, but I would say it, the challenges were greater than the people that wanted to change. When it comes to that, and I love this idea about changing, right?
And I think that's the big question. For the trainers of educators, right? The people who are trying to push more culturally responsive practices, but do you feel like is there a certain amount of learning or is it a certain amount of heart and attitude? Is it? Is it more matter of the heart than the mind?
Is it? Is it more? Is it about learning or is it about like your intentions? Do you know what I'm saying? If that makes sense we have a lot of good white liberal intentions and look what happens with that. So it's not so much the intention. It's the ability to change and transform over time and to take it to different areas.
[00:27:00] So if I was to teach about what it looks like to incorporate a science lesson with instructional pieces or a math lesson, people saying different content areas are culturally neutral. They're not every single area has something that can be dismantled or looked at, or you can add to gender and race and size and color and differentiated learning, but people don't get that.
And so it's the person that has that opening that says, I want to know more. I'm willing to learn. And that's called cultural Yes. And when people step into the space, And they check their privilege and they say, I got to understand what this means because you're not no savior. The kids save us. They give us everything that's right.
Yes. And so we really want people who, when they come to teaching, you can already see that opening and they may not be there. They may say the wrong thing. They may go run and [00:28:00] get a lesson. I used to have this all the time. We're going to teach the n word. I'm like wait. Okay. You ready? Yeah.
You're not ready yet. Okay. No. You do not wear a Native American headdress to teach. Okay. Come let's talk about this. And but there's these people that are like, I must know more. I have a yearning. I want to love our kids and I want to get them ready to be global citizens, but they're going to teach me too.
Those are the people that I was really interested in working with because there's an opening there. And there is a positive intention and they have an ability to put the privilege aside and to be taught and that's going to be important. Okay, we're going to pause for a second just to go on break. But when we get back, we want to keep talking to you about this.
These, all these gems you are dropping and. Just keep going on what are you doing now and how your family community was supportive of your work and still still are supportive. So all right, we'll [00:29:00] be back in a moment. Okay. Hello, listener. If you've made it this far into the episode, perhaps you are enjoying this remix conversation about power, culture, and education.
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That's Patreon dot com slash two dope teachers. And we are back with more of the exit interview and our wonderful, amazing guests. Dr. Darlene Sampson. Do the work about it. So Dr. Sampson, you were telling us, all that you were going through, all the experiences, beyond racial battle fatigue, we still don't know what we got to call it, but just having to fight that fight, and doing the work.
And I just thank you as a person who's been in the district for a minute. Thank you for the work that you did, because I think While we are not near perfect [00:31:00] people your influence is still felt in the district and where we need to go. And I'm hearing more and more of the right words.
Now the question is, does that manifest in action? But if I had to ask you what things would you want administrators, district leaders to know? building leaders to know to help reduce racial battle fatigue, to, to make sure that we keep these black educators who have a deep desire to serve and a passion and a cultural knowledge of the community and ability to connect with students.
What advice would you give these leaders to help reduce that racial battle fatigue? Yes. One of the important things, just like I center the voices of students, they need to do that for the Black and brown and differentiated staff they have now, so they always will say to me, we've got to recruit and retain more.
You can't even do that until you look at who you have and why they're there. And if they feel [00:32:00] comfortable being there, how are you treating them? Do you ask them? Are they invisible in your building? Do you call on them to be the black disciplinarian or are you engage with them in ways that value who they are?
And we know that black folks like to be in a cohort. Thank you. That they have other people who look like them. It doesn't mean we won't connect with others, but we do have to have that space where we feel validated and it's safe enough for us to say what we want. And I can remember black educators walking in buildings, whispering to me, pointing to me to come to them so they could tell me what was going on, not feeling comfortable enough.
They were being pitted against each other. They were being pitted against teachers that were not black. They were being pitted against black parents and kids. They were asked to do all kinds of things that are totally inappropriate and cause severe racial battle fatigue and make them want to leave the district or the [00:33:00] school.
If I'm the only one and there's only two and you expect me to speak, I'm the black consultant for the whole world. That used to have to happen to me in buildings where I'm going to speak for all black folks. I am the person, but then I don't go and get people from my community that looks like my kids.
I don't, they don't have to necessarily be teachers, although we want to groom people, but all kids, every kid, including black kids need to see all kinds of people coming into the spaces. And there's this stuff in the literature about whiteness as property so that you become property. Our black kids become property of schools and school districts and of a charter school or different, whatever kind of school.
And they don't even reach out to the people who look like the kids. That's right. Because they are our kids. We're going to do what we want to do with them, even if we don't treat them well, even if they don't see culturally responsive teaching, even if they don't see other people look like them or their parents come to school and feel validated.
So [00:34:00] they, leaders have to go beyond what they just learn in school. If you aren't going to reach out to community, if you don't want to know, you got to know where your kids are eating, what they're doing on the weekend, where are they at? How do they feel? What happens to them when they walk in their black and brown shoes, if you're not ready to hear those things about your kids, you're not ready to lead in communities of color, and you're not ready to lead in white communities because white kids and other kids all need to know about other kids, too, because we know that they have better empathy, they're less bullying occurs when you know about other people, when you see them in the curriculum and you know their value and their history, you're less likely to make fun of, be disrespectful and integrating.
So if you're going to lead for equity, which is a training that I do now, if you're going to lead for equity. It's not performative. And all of a sudden you got a beautiful mission statement, but it doesn't mean [00:35:00] anything. And the people are, the black folks are still whispering in your building because they're scared.
Already there, you're not paying attention to what they need and they have to be able to say. what the truth is. And when they do speak out, you don't squash them and beat them down. When they ask about how kids are being treated, that's something to say, wow, we got to look at this. How can we do it?
I want to hear your voices, but you got to learn to podcast, reading, checking yourself. There's a book coaching for equity. You got to do multiple things. Don't just go to your black folks and say, tell me everything I'm supposed to do. You ain't making the money, but tell me what I'm supposed to do.
Then I'll shoot you down if I don't like it. That's right. I think, when you're talking about going into schools and folks telling you to come on over and whispering to you. Yes. It reminds me, and I have to just pause right here and say shout out to Stacy Brandon, who works in the office of Inclusive Excellence for Cherry Creek School District.
She was my [00:36:00] person. Okay. When I was teaching in Cherry Creek, she was my person and she was the one that I always call her and say I please come over here and be like, like a cool glass of water for 30 minutes. Just, and when she was in our building for trainings or to meet with the administrators or whatever, she would always come up and see me.
And it was like, I, she came every time I needed her. Great. Because I did have black educators in my building, but they very much so assimilated to whiteness and white culture. And so it was more like denying, like they just did not everyone, not every year, but the hardest part of my career. It was that way that people just.
I was rendered invisible. And yeah, for, to say, to think about now, she's leaving the district school district this year at the end. And if you have left your school district DPS, just to think like how many black educators no longer have that person. And they may be [00:37:00] replaced short, but not have that relationship.
And that's so important. I've maintained those relationships, which is interesting. A lot of them I don't think a week goes by that someone from DPS doesn't say, Dr. Sampson, what should I do with this? Dr. Sampson, let me tell you what happened. I hear the same things and I hear some progressive things and I hear some different things.
Yeah, there's a lot that's going on with pushing. the work, but it was similar to what was said 15 years ago. People weren't ready. So some of this work is developmental. I want to say that that people aren't ready till they're ready. Or if they get a lawsuit. That's the other thing. It's always the money.
It's always the money. Yes. Huh. Or we got an OCR complaint, Office of Civil Rights. Okay. Ooh, we better do something real quick here. Then we act. Yes. And they divide the groups that are already minoritized and otherized. [00:38:00] At the time that I was coming along in DPS, they went full force. For English learners.
Yes. And put money everywhere in every crevice corner. The same thing I've been saying that helps all kids and and then push the English learners start rising above the black children in proficiency. Yep. So then that pitted paint black parents and brown parents. So this is the kind of behavior that happens over and over in our schools and districts.
Sure. And it really goes back to that point that if we do these culturally responsive practices, and this is the same thing I've heard. In English language learner trainings, right? Is that these practices help all students. They do. And we resist it or we say, you can, you have to do it this way.
It has to look that way. Or for these kids, there's funding for it for these kids. There's not, it's just, let's, if we really want to, and again, I have big questions about that achievement gap, right? That language of [00:39:00] all of it. But if we want to do something and create more equity, we know we know, like you said, This stuff has been said for 15 years and probably even longer than that, right?
Way back. 400 years, right? Yeah this is what Carter G. Wood said when he creates Negro History Week. He's we need to learn about ourselves. That's how we're going to engage and improve our lives. Yes, absolutely. We got some serious work to do. And this new movement and moment, I don't even know.
Because I'm way older than all of you. And what I will say is that I see some hopeful pieces. I see some performative pieces. I see some rich pieces but we can't keep knocking statues down when there's systems of oppression. That means absolutely nothing. And education is one of the biggest systems of oppression.
All the forms of oppression are engaged there. And this is the time to push. So that's what I do now.[00:40:00] I work for the Western Educational Equity Assistance Center. And I don't even know if not a lot of people know, some do, that the United States is divided into four quadrants, and the U. S. The Federal Department of Education provides funds for K 12 schools and K 12 organizations free of charge to request services around race, national origin, English learners, and religion particularly Native American children.
We do a lot of work around trauma, culturally responsive trauma, not culturally informed. I ain't informed culturally responsive. You're doing the work that you know about how to do it. And we do a lot of work around title nine, and this is under the 1964 civil rights act. And I do the work in 13 states and three territories.
So I work for the rest, western region and we also have three territories, Island of Mariana, Hawaii, and Guam, [00:41:00] but it also could be Arizona, Colorado, Nevada, Wyoming. All principals, school district leaders, superintendents, they send us a email on the website. We need help around disproportionality in this.
We need help around culturally responsive instruction. Would you come and do an audit of our entire district? Would you evaluate our kids? In terms of student engagement, how they feel about being in this district in terms of gender and sex equity, whatever it is that we're doing. And that's what I do now in the 13 states and three territories.
And we're travel, traveling up until the pandemic. Now everything's virtual, but we will start to travel again in the fall. I love that. I love that you said it was free. Yes, it is free. paid for by the federal government and so glad for the new administration because the old administration was pushing back on critical race theory.
Yes. These are [00:42:00] some of the things we talk about when we go. We get practical, but we also have to have a framework to talk through some things. And we even thought that some of our work would be diluted or changed, but the 64 civil rights act is anchored. You can't get rid of us, but you could defund us.
Yes. We take an act of Congress. And I am so glad our new administration came in and said no, we got to continue this trajectory of work. It is hard and toxic. It's still very difficult. Yes. Yes. People still call and they ask us for work and they have no intention of embedding it, but it's a checkoff.
So that's interesting. Yeah, still happening though. And there's some who just really are pushing in so many ways to change what's happening in their district. Wow. Interesting. That is fantastic. And the work is so important, given what we know about the demographics of the American educational.
System and where we are [00:43:00] headed. I, and but it and when I think about the bigger picture, and just the struggle for freedom and liberation, it's long term, it's not going to be easy. They're not going to give it up, because I feel like it's the, and this is why I think there's always been this attack on education.
Whether it be attacking higher education for being too liberal or whether attacking K through 12 education for not being, good enough and the solution, the cause of all of the problems in the world. But it's because, the educational system helps to maintain white supremacy at its root.
Yes. At its root. It's rooted everywhere. Budgeting. I was looking the other day. Could you, someone called me, could you help me write a grant for underserved students? I don't do all that coded language. Underserved means historically excluded. Yep. Let's stop playing games about. Coded language. And it's for minority kids.
No, they're minoritized. [00:44:00] Yep. But in the world, they have a global majority. That's right. That's right. So called it language. I pushed back on it and translate it and help people to think correctly about it. And no, don't get money and start doing all kinds of things for our kids, but they don't get it and they don't receive the benefit of what's.
Yeah, I have one more question. Okay. And this kind of goes back to the question Kevin asked about advice, but more so towards black educators. I recently I feel like with the podcast coming out, I've had more black educators calling me or messaging me on Facebook and saying I think it's time to go.
I'm not sure what to do. And just wondering and sharing stories. And so my question is what do you tell an educator who a black educator who's ready to leave but Is afraid that all their resume says is teacher, right? And they, and for some, for in their mind, that's not enough, but they know [00:45:00] it's time for them to go.
What advice would you give them? I was coaching some, I coach a lot and mentor a lot of folks and because people have done that for me and continue to do that for me. I was thinking about that last week because one teacher was saying, I, it's really time to go. I've put in and done everything I can.
I'm exhausted emotionally. Now I'm starting to feel angry and my health is being impacted emotional health. And I said to her, let's look at what you've been doing because you're not branding yourself correctly. And so she does community work with young VEDA.
Educational support and consultation on behalf of marginalized students and populations. You got to learn how to play that game like other folks. Yes. Yes. They know how to change language and create stuff and haven't done half the work. That's right. When you're at your [00:46:00] church that's anchoring spirituality and education.
When you attend affairs or you have a booth, like she would have booths of different things. That's an educational practice. So shore up your community based experience, talk about it in a different way add to it have people that can provide a a plethora of information about you, not just education, but all of us.
We do a lot of different things that we don't take responsibility for because it's part of our blackness. We need to say that because other people don't do it. And they don't take responsibility for if you re if you're reading, if you add to your knowledge, go, if you go to workshop, all of those are things as well.
And so I was talking to her about all the things I've witnessed that she's not said that she's done when she has been a she's been an instructional coach. Every time white folks come to you and ask you about blackness and black kids, you're an instructional coach. I love that. Yes, that's so [00:47:00] true.
That's so right. So we talked about that and the branding that has to go on. It's a part of the game. It's a political game. But it is the work that we do and we need to be able to say, yes, I did these things and it's okay. But also. Sometimes you need to leave and you're still leaving your kids there.
That's what makes you sad. And you know how they may be treated. They never will get that lesson like you gave them. Or I said, did you ever think about the fact that I've been gone 15 10 years or so, and I'm walking around Las Vegas, Dr. Samson. I'm People remember what you embed in them when it validates and connects to them.
So it's not for nothing when you leave after you've done what you can do, and sometimes you need to do it and let the next group come on and create that space. And that's how I left with a good headspace was that [00:48:00] it's just time. I embedded what I could. They can't get away from me. There's still things there today.
That's right. I create it. And as mad as they were about the change and how I pushed, I still embedded a lot of information. And so I tell them your health and your emotional health are pieces that are important. And we weren't made to take responsibility for our whole The whole social construct of race for black folks.
We're not responsible and people are made to make us feel that and so that's some of the knowledge that I would drop on them is that you did what you could do in this space. Now let someone else carry that torch to a different space. Now it's time for you to do something different for you.
I love that. I love that. What a beautiful place to end our podcast episode. Yes. Episode 6. Episode 6. Thank you so much Dr. Diane Sampson. We'll [00:49:00] definitely just...
Take these pearls of wisdom and I've written down so many notes as always. And just thank you so much for coming on and sharing this with our educators, with our audience. And hopefully this is really going to be impactful for people who are listening to this and beyond. Great. Young folks are stepping up.
It's your time now. I'm, you can stand on my shoulders and I stood on someone else's and we will all work together. So it is absolutely your time. I'm just watching all of you. I'm scared of y'all. We're thankful for what y'all what you've done. We are thankful. Thank you for having me. No problem. We'll talk to y'all later.
Bye.[00:50:00] 
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