The Person I Am Now Is Different with Arvian Harper

Dr. Asia Lyons: All right. All right, everyone. We're here with a new episode. The Exit Interview: A podcast for Black Educators is back, and we have a new guest, Arvian Harper.  

Arvian Harper: Hey!

Dr. Asia Lyons: Woohoo, we are so excited to have you on the show. Kevin, say what up to the people.

Kevin Adams: What up? How's everybody doing? It's great to be back here. So happy to get into [00:01:00] Arvian’s interview, Asia. I think we have to acknowledge that something has changed since maybe the last time we got with the people.

You are a doctor now. So give it up. Give it up for you. Yay. That's it. That's it. Dr. Lyons, to y'all. No. Yeah she's still Asia. She hasn't blown up on us yet. That I know of. That I know of. That's right. That's right.

Dr. Asia Lyons: They know me in these streets, sort of. Arvian, we're excited to hear your story. We gonna just go ahead and jump right in. First question always is, tell us your journey into education. What made you decide to become an educator?

Arvian Harper:  All right. First thank you for creating space for educators like me to tell our story.

So my journey [00:02:00] started, I actually went to Denver Public Schools. I  worked in Denver Public Schools and I went to DPS schools from ECE through 12th grade. I graduated from East High School, shout out to the Angels High School. There I was actually the president of the engineering club at East and went to Boulder to CU on a full ride scholarship to their engineering program.

By the time I got like ready to go, I was like, oh, I don't wanna, I really don't wanna be an engineer. I wanna be a doctor. And so I switched my major and that first year Boulder did me in that's a whole story on its own. But it just was not a good fit, like program-wise, school-wise. It was terrible.

And so I came back to Denver and tried to find my way, worked full-time, got my own place. Took classes here and there [00:03:00] and wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I always had a passion for teaching. I always had a passion for little kids and people would tell me like, oh, you should be a teacher.

And I'm like, teachers don't make no money. Like what? I don't, I'm not doing that. But that's where my heart was. And so I stumbled across Preschool teaching program at CCD and was like let me just take a couple of classes to see. Because at that time I was like in my early twenties and I wasn't making any progress and I wasn't like figuring it out.

And so instead of trying to follow the money, I was like let me, my heart really is in teaching. I would love to teach especially the littles. Got my certifications from CCD. They had preschool certification, infant toddler, and director certification. Did that and then fell in love, was working in the classroom, fell in love.

I was also, it was [00:04:00] a lab school, so not only was I like teaching the kids, but the adult students would come to observe the classroom and the professors would like guide them through things. And so I loved like that mentorship aspect. So I went to UNC they have an Urban Education Program at Lowry and they had just started an early ed program.

So I went there was the first graduate from that early ed cohort. And went right into DPS. I started as a para, then was a sub. And then I started teaching Headstart. I fell in love, went to kindergarten, and I just, it was my place I felt that I had arrived. And so at that time, I Each grade that I went to, I wanted to have more of an impact.

The district started doing like coaching, they were doing the evaluation program, but they started to think what if we made teachers coaches too? And they taught [00:05:00] halftime. And that is a full district-wide thing now, but at the time when it first started, we were piloting it and I'm like, I would love to do that.

I wanna have more of an impact. And did that for a few years and then got, went into administration as a dean of instruction at Cole Arts and Science Academy and yeah. And that was my journey.

Dr. Asia Lyons: So from the time that you finished your certifications until leaving schooling how many years were you in the education space?

Arvian Harper: In the traditional education space?  So from the time that I started like the very first, when I first started like teaching private ECE? 16 years. Yeah. And 14 of those years with DPS.

Kevin Adams:  Oh wow. impressive.  So impressive. And I love, that you worked your way through it and I think [00:06:00] I, I can relate always to these stories of setting out to do one thing, in college and then finding teaching and then having a love and a passion for it, that you're describing.

And then also, I would just always say this, shout out to the ECE teachers. All the ECE, kindergarten, the early years, the people that like put it all together and make it happen. I'm in awe of my E c e kindergarten, all of that up to like third grade. Y'all not to say the people after that aren't, but Y'all are putting it all together and dealing with all sorts of stuff.

And I know, I'm part of the bargaining, the D C T A bargaining team right now, and I know I sit on the team with a couple of ECE teachers and I know that shout out to them and all of y'all ECE teachers, that you don't always have the resources needed. To accomplish the work or the time.

And there's a lot of needs. So I just have to acknowledge that.[00:07:00] So you have all this passion. You're working your way all the way through it, right? You've come up, you've found it. But as Asia alluded to earlier you are no longer a teacher. So can you tell us about some of your experiences as an educator, as a Black woman?

That you encountered working in the school district that you went to, that you've lived in, let's just say that, right? Yeah. Let's say it that way. The school district that you've lived in. But talk about some of those experiences that you had as you went through this system.

Arvian Harper: That's a really great question.

1. At the very beginning of my journey. First I couldn't get hired, so let's call that what it is. I graduated Summa Laude, had all of this experience because I had been working in private before I was transitioning into public. And so like my resume wasn't there, and yet [00:08:00] I was transitioning into DPS.

I applied for at least 20 to 25 schools could not get hired. Could not get an interview. This Black woman at my church who had worked in DPS for a long time and was retired, who then knew some principals and was like, can you just interview her? And so the very first one that called me, I did that interview and that's the job that I got.

And from there I later learned a lot of principals went with Teach for America candidates, like they were more of a sure thing that again, could probably be its own conversation. And so from there I spent the majority of my career trying to be Black excellence.

I wanted. The students, I wanted the rest of the staff to be able to see not just [00:09:00] a Black educator, but like I wanted to be the cream of the crop. I wanted to be the top. I wanted their experience to be so rich, so different, so authentic, so natural, so free. And so that was what I held with me and with the kids.

At first, I was really impactful. Like I got distinguished. Three years in a row. Cuz they told me you could only like, if you ever actually get it, you'll only get it once. And I was like, how? Challenge accepted.

Got you. And so once I was able to do that, then I'm like, everything is a system, right?  Like we approach it as a system. So then when the coaching opportunity came, I wanted to then like kind of shift. The way that we think about educating and the way that we think about teaching. And so it was a, I constantly felt this call to have more impact outside of what my hands were directly on.

However,[00:10:00] like the hard, the higher that I went up in title, the more I felt like my hands were tied. And so I was having even less of an impact than I thought that I would.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, it’s interesting that you say that because we've heard that from several folks who've come on our podcast where there has been like some assumption that if I just get to this place, then surely I'll be able to make the impact that I want to make sure that our kids get what they need and it's just not happening over and over again.  And this is different districts all over the country. Really. Now at this point we've been, interviewing folks from all over.

Kevin Adams: Yep. Yep. For sure. It's a common thread. Yeah, a common thread. Yeah.

Dr. Asia Lyons: So, our next question is what was that last straw where it was just like, it's time to go?  What was that situation or situations that helped you decide I'm distinguished or not, it's just time to move on.

Arvian Harper: Yeah. My transition to administration was [00:11:00] also a shift. It was a change in school, so it was a lot of newness happening. And that school, that year, the first week of school, we had a shooting on campus.  Within that first month, we had a gun, like onsite, and then that was the year of the strike. So, you could imagine. Again, even just being in administration during that time I was also on a team of leaders of color, all new to role. And so the lack of like support that we had was mind blowing. However, it was the community.

That's the east side of Denver. Those are my people. Like it. This is the work. This is what I wanted to be Black excellence in a space like this, to do this type of work. So while on one side I felt like I was being beat down by the lack of support in doing the work, I was still so encouraged and empowered by the community that I [00:12:00] was in.

And then. The pandemic. Yeah. And so that created a whole other thing. And I still rode it through. The other two leaders left at the very beginning, and I still rode it out. But then I started. The pandemic was hard on me personally, and so I had some grief that I was working through, which led me to going to therapy and getting some support.

And I started to prioritize my wellness in a way that not only had I never done in my life, but was never modeled for me by any other adult or any of my peers. And so the space that I had, To do a deep dive where I thought I was going for grief, but what unpacked especially that was caused through like being a Black educator in these streets, I was like, I [00:13:00] can't.

Prioritize my healing and do this work this way. Like not they, they both can't coexist not for me and certainly not right now. And that led me to work part-time last year where I could maintain both. I was not a homeroom teacher and I was only there half of the time. My wellness and healing was the other half of the time on top of being a mother and all that.

And through that is where I like. Started to, as I started to peel off some of that trauma, I'm like, there's a whole person here that I don't know. There's a whole person here that wants, that cares about. Other stuff too, and there's another way to do things. And so from there I worked part-time last year and decided to start like two other businesses.

Never thought I would [00:14:00] be an entrepreneur that was like, not on my list, but here we are and yeah still doing the work, but just doing it. Differently.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. I wanna back up a little bit because we don't, we haven't asked this question in a while, Kevin, and now that you've mentioned your children, I wanna ask the question of when you were having like ex experiencing this shift, right?

Where it was like, I'm gonna start going to therapy, I'm gonna start taking care of self and like really rejecting what was happening in the school space.  How did your family support that work?  Or did they.  I don’t want to make an assumption. How did they or did not support you? Going to part-time making these shifts and, things like that.

We'll get into the part about, you having two different careers but right at this moment, we would love, I would love to know more about their family aspect of that.

Arvian Harper: Yeah. Yeah, that that family aspect is huge because as like you don't always have [00:15:00] the privilege, like working part-time was something I never had, was able to do in my adult life.

Like we needed the adults to work the whole time. And so that really caused I went to my husband the first few months into therapy and I'm like this can't this is starting to unlock a whole different space for me and I can't go back full-time, so what I need you to pick up my other half and what does that look like and how does that shift our life?

And so he then changed things so that it created some financial freedom for me and which made him like, gone more. And then my mother-in-law and my mother like started to support more with the kids. So then it's really easy for mothers to then say, oh, I have free time. I have free energy.

Like it's going into the children in the household. Yeah. But my [00:16:00] two mothers then. Picked up that slack on that end so that it gave me space. And I was very transparent of what that space was for and why I had to have it. And so with my family, I feel like they have all been supportive and it's something that I've said before, but it's just.

Healing and like wellness is every, is for everybody. Everybody needs it and not everybody has the access or understanding for it. And I felt like my transparency made it so even though I. The people in my life weren't governing their lives that way they would be able to learn from my process.

And so it was important to me to be really open about what that looks like. And I am so grateful because then I was able to take the space needed without any extra burden on my family.

Kevin Adams: I think that's really interesting and [00:17:00] Asia can tell you like, I think there is this toll for Black women educators. That is that is, we haven't really delved into, and I think there's a different experience based on our interviews and my own experience as a Black male educator that Black women are going through that.

And I think when you center what you said your journey was about, to that wellness was part of that space of finding yourself. As a Black woman and managing, your obligations or what you perceive to be your obligations, even right in the whole big picture. I think that's an important point to out.  

Arvian Harper: That's a huge point. Because a lot of my self-work was like, wrestling with the responsibility. Like me, I was always functioning at like way over my capacity. And so, [00:18:00] there is space for me to do nothing. It was so hard for me to do nothing like quote unquote like to pull back. I felt like I'm not.

I had to deal with I'm not doing enough. I'm not, I'm only at the school part-time, so I'm only doing so much there. And even here I'm not doing as much. And it, that was a part of the work is like holding that space and even doing what I was doing was more than enough, but understanding that and feeling like we're always.

We are as in Black women are always over, we're always over the threshold. We're always functioning way past what is healthy and safe. And that still is its own journey.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. I hundred percent agree, I'm so glad we asked that question. And I'm just thinking about all the Black women in education and [00:19:00] outside of education who are listening to this podcast.

And I hope that they're hearing like you don’t have to run around busy. I was talking to a good friend of mine who's been on the podcast, Stacy Brandon, shout out to Stacy Taylor Brandon. And we were talking about, I was specifically talking about reclaiming the word lazy because she was like, I don't wanna, I don't mean to say lazy, but I just wanna hang out.

And I'm like, yeah, let's reclaim lazy.

Kevin Adams: That’s it. Hashtag reclaim lazy.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah, like I wanna be lazy and I don't wanna wait till I can hear the door open up and then jump up and start vacuuming. I don't wanna do that. I want to be lazy. I want to be lazy and be okay with that and not have all the guilt behind that.

Thank you for sharing that piece. So then our next question Kevin always laughs because he already knows how I feel about this, but what do you think that unions and school districts and admin can do? She's already shaking her head, Kevin.

Kevin Adams: Now, hold on, Asia. Hold on. She could be shaking her head because she's got something really profound that we haven't heard on this question.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Something's telling me, Kevin, that's not the case, but I'm just gonna go ahead and see what she says. What do you think unions, admin school districts can do to keep Black educators in the classroom or in the education space in the traditional sense?

Arvian Harper: This question is really, yeah, so I really feel like number one there is the system.

The spaces are not created for  Black educators. And so the space in essence, the systems in essence, they need to be a nurturing space for Black educators to show up authentically and where they are also like acknowledging the experience and the knowledge that [00:21:00] they're bringing to the table and it's valued.

And this looks like. Them being involved in the work, like you should be able to it's like that sense of with your kids. Like I know that they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, even if I'm not even if I didn't ask them or tell them. So you should be able to see the effects of what it looks like for a system to be honoring their Black educators by the work that is there.

And What does that look like in the self-awareness for the individuals in the program awareness? Do the Black educators have an authentic space at the table? And what is that like in shifts, in mindsets and actions and then you gotta pay them like that? Is that is where we are.

The value that Black educators have. Obviously to students of color, but to everyone needs to be on the same page of recognizing that this is not a Black thing, this is like the [00:22:00] right thing. And once that is accepted and once you are again valuing them in that space, and like I would say question systematically like program-wise, what value looks like for your Black educators, then they'll be there.

And pay is involved, pay if that's it.

Kevin Adams: Arvian, I just need I just can, do I have permission to play this segment at the bargaining table on Wednesday when we go back for negotiations? We take this part out but yeah. This is like what we, this is like what we've been saying.

They don't seem to hear us on the points that you're making but that's a whole other story. Whole

Dr. Asia Lyons: Whole other story.

Yeah, so we're going to go ahead and go to commercial break. We'll be back in a little bit.

BREAK

Kevin Adams: We are back. I am Kevin Adams and we are here with Dr. Asia Lyons and our guest [00:23:00] Arvian Harper. And Arvian has just been telling us about her journey through the Denver Public School system. And we just say, 8a lifer or, but now she's finally been sprung, right? So Asia, if you wanna pick back up.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. So my favorite question and the reason why I decided this was a great podcast to have in the first place is now that you've left traditional classroom spaces, what are you doing now? What are you doing with your time? How are you filling your days or not filling your days? Tell us as much as you would like to tell us, give us all the details.

Arvian Harper: Yeah. So for my traditional work now is I'm doing educational consulting, which allows me the space to still do the work, and that is what is important to my heart. And so being able to support schools and support nonprofits and people who are committed to [00:24:00] doing the work differently. To, showing up authentically and with integrity and accountability and they all were the awareness on what we're doing and who we're doing it for and the impact on that has been in just a short amount of time has been so beautiful and exactly like what my heart needed because I care about the work.

So for that looks like me doing more coaching, which I love, cuz. Coaching is so connected to teaching and so that brings me so much joy. Some curriculum development and like leading professional learning. And so all of the things that I did when I was working for the district and the other side to my life is I have a passion project and I have a mobile espresso and bookshop.

And I make the best coffee. Like coffee for me is unlike any that you've ever had. I make all of my syrups [00:25:00] from scratch. It’s an experience. And I also sell books for all ages from just Black authors, and so that,

Dr. Asia Lyons: oh wow. Pause. Wait a minute. Wait a second. First of all, when we talked, you did not mention this book part, so I was trying to hold it down I'm like, wait a minute, we'll discuss this later.

Arvian Harper: I love coffee at first for me and my adulthood was a necessity, but now it has been it has brings me so much joy.

Brings me so much peace. Brings me so all of the good feels. And so to be able to make like really good coffee for people, like with my like Black girl magic on it has been wonderful. And then I am such a reader, literacy like, teacher lover. And so [00:26:00] again, these stories, bringing these stories that are written by Black people is just a beautiful thing.

So I'm at I do local markets. I'm always at Rebel Marketplace, which is every first and third Saturday at Delmar Park. And yeah, so my time is spent doing the things that I love only, that's the only space that I hold.

Kevin Adams: There we go. We love that. We need, we need the name of your consulting firm.

Yeah. And then the name of your coffee book shop. All that. Yeah. Emails, ways they can reach you, things like that. We need details.

Arvian Harper: Okay. My consulting firm is ALH Ed Consulting and you can send me an email, at a.harper@alhedconsulting.com. You can also find me on social media. My coffee company is called Awakening Cafe [00:27:00] and it's on Instagram.

And you can also message me there and then I do other local markets, but the one that I'm always at is Rebel Marketplace, which is also it's a beautiful space created for like people of color, urban farmers, and it is every first and third Saturday at Delmar Park.

Dr. Asia Lyons: And you do, you take your coffee cart, your book cart, and you take it to schools?  I've heard, so it's mobile. People can call you corporations, schools, philanthropy, call you and you'll show up.

Arvian Harper: Yeah, absolutely. We just did five schools in one week and set up coffee for their teachers that were doing pd. And so again, nice teachers love coffee, but like my coffee is a whole other experience that it has that Black girl magic coffee.

Kevin Adams: That's right. That's the real deal.

Arvian Harper: It was beautiful. So yeah, we do events, we do like we'll cater a [00:28:00] meeting. All of that. Schools businesses.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Kevin, did you notice when she's talking, look at her face. She's smiling so hard.

Kevin Adams: She's smiling. Oh, much happiness.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. That's so dope.

Kevin Adams: A testament to getting out.

Arvian Harper: Yeah.

Kevin Adams: Asia is smiling too because whenever she hears these stories, she's just yes. More inspiration for the movement. Yeah.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. And specifically, too, we've had a lot of folks who've gone into consulting or a nonprofit sector and different things. We've had just a few folks who've gone totally out of the box of education.  Michael Diaz Rivera has his cannabis company where he does deliveries. I think it's Better Days. It's Better Days Deliveries.

Kevin Adams: Think it's, I think so. Yeah. I think so.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. And so it's really cool that I'm, I always ask [00:29:00] that question. We ask this question because we want folks to know you don't have to run away completely.

You can do something or both or in between to think about the things that you love that are your passion projects or things that you've been thinking about doing and show up. And I've been, I've experienced coffee carts lots of times, right? And so what does it mean for us to just really get creative, sit down and say what do I love to do what was gonna make me smile in the morning, even though I have five schools to get to, I'm totally okay with that. And so yeah, shout out to you and folks who are out there saying, you know what? I've said this before. Kevin and I, we talk about this all the time. We don't die.

We thrive out here. That's right. That's it. Yeah. So our last question, our favorite, Kevin, I'll let you ask it.

Kevin Adams:  So our last question, hold on. Asia you go ahead and ask it. You're gonna remind me it's been a minute.

Dr. Asia Lyons: What's [00:30:00] bringing you joy these days?

Kevin Adams: There we go. There we go. Thank you. That's what I thought it was.

Arvian Harper: Being free. It's bringing me joy, being open, being able to be creative and adventurous and just me, and like the discovery, the self-discovery has brought me so much joy in reading. Like I get to read all the time and I am such a bookworm, so I, that's hard to do when you are working the nine to five and then after you work, you still working, like you working on the weekends.

I couldn't read like that and so now I can read all the time and so that, that is bringing me all the joy.

Kevin Adams: Wow. That's fantastic. I love your story because like Asia always, I think that her goal with every season is to get me to say, that I'm [00:31:00] leaving, but you just give me these options.

And I always say I don't wanna, I. There's certain stuff, but your coffee cart, it's got me thinking. It's got me thinking of all of the possibilities. I could be out there and do my thing, and as you point out, we got a lot to offer. We got a lot to offer. So much.

Arvian Harper: Yeah. I was always great.  I always did everything with a certain level of excellence. Like I was always committed to the work and. The person that I am now with my liberation is so different and it's like there is space for me to still show up in excellence. But still be free and so much joy comes along with that and it's powerful.

Dr. Asia Lyons: Yeah. I love that. The liberation, the freedom. Oof. Okay. Good folks. Another fantastic [00:32:00] episode of The Exit Interview: A Podcast for Black Educators. We'd like to thank you all for listening. Again, check out Arvian, check out what she's doing. If you are in a corporate space in the Denver Metro area, call her support Black business.

Make sure you get these syrups. Make sure you get these books right. So if you're not in education, that's okay. Get out there and support her work.

Kevin Adams: That's it. Appreciate having you on the show. Thank you so much.

Arvian Harper: I was so glad to be here.

Dr. Asia Lyons: You all have a great day and we'll talk to you later.

Bye.

Kevin Adams: Peace.